M44 Nagant accuracy question.

[cybrhick]

I recently aquired an M44 Mosin Nagant. This is my first rifle, and I am just getting in to guns. The Nagant has been modified with a sport stock. I picked it up last week, and took it out to the range with a friend last weekend to run a few rounds through it.

Now I haven't been around guns much in my life, and I haven't fired a gun in probably 20 years. This is the first rifle I have ever fired in fact.

So we set up at the 100 yard range, put out a a few 9 inch targets, and I proceeded to see how bad of a shot I was. Well, as my dad used to say, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I ran 20 rounds through her, and no matter how hard I tried to aim, I only put 4 in the targets. MAN, I SUCK.

Well, this week, I heard from someone that the M44 was designed to have the bayonett "balance" the gun, and that if you remove the bayonett, it will throw your shot off. When I got my M44, it did not have a bayonett attached, and, because I am not collecting at for nostalgia, nor am I planning to impale anyone, the bayonett not being included did not seem to be a big deal to me. Now I am wondering if I should be hunting for a bayonett in an effort to improve my shot, and restore my faith that I am not completely inept.

So is this true? Does the M44 need the bayonett to fire accurately? Can someone explain to me why?

 

[Southpaw]

Well seeing that you haven't shot in so long, I would start at 25 yards and work out from there...Not to sound like an Ass, but starting at 100 w/o any real practice or experience is foolish. I own an M44as well and have read about the bayonet as well, however I think it's more you then the rifle at this point. Again.. I am not trying to rag on you, just trying to help.

 

[TimberWolf7.62]

Q. Why does my M44 shoot so far to the left (or right) of the point of aim?
A. M44s were sighted in with the bayonet extended. Shooting with the bayonet stowed affects the barrel harmonics and can change the point of impact by as much as 1 foot per 100 yards. Not all M44s are effected this much or even at all. Either shoot with the bayonet extended or drift the front sight to compensate for the difference.

From Mosin Nagant FAQs

 

[cybrhick]

Q. Why does my M44 shoot so far to the left (or right) of the point of aim?
A. M44s were sighted in with the bayonet extended. Shooting with the bayonet stowed affects the barrel harmonics and can change the point of impact by as much as 1 foot per 100 yards. Not all M44s are effected this much or even at all. Either shoot with the bayonet extended or drift the front sight to compensate for the difference.

From Mosin Nagant FAQs

OK, forgive my lack of knowledge. What is drifting the site?

 

[majormadmax]

First, everything you could want to know about the Mosin-Nagant variants can be found at: 7.62x54r.net

Secondly, these old Russian carbines aren't known for their accuracy. At 100 yrds and iron sights it's a crapshoot, they're better at 50-75 yards. Folks will talk about much greater ranges, but honestly they're either much better than average or full of shit! Plus, it's not the bullet that has the knock-down power, it's the shock wave that follows it!

Lastly, Mosins are not hunting rifles (although you can use them to hunt), so don't compare it to your Remington 700 or something similar. And if anyone is not impressed by your M44, then taking them out and shoot it at dawn or dusk. The fireball will knock them out of their socks!

 

[cybrhick]

Well seeing that you haven't shot in so long, I would start at 25 yards and work out from there...Not to sound like an Ass, but starting at 100 w/o any real practice or experience is foolish. I own an M44as well and have read about the bayonet as well, however I think it's more you then the rifle at this point. Again.. I am not trying to rag on you, just trying to help.

LOL. I have pretty thick skin. I can take the abuse. LOL.

Bear in mind that I admit that I know NOTHING about shooting. I don't even know if there is an area in the rifle range for 25 yards. I'll have to check. I am totally learning at this point.

Treat me like the firearms virgin I am.

 

[Hardway]

I have heard the same thing on the 91/30 full size Mosin Nagants. There were sighted in from the factory with the bayonet on. You will need to adjust your sights to compensate for it. If you search around the net there are several articles that give you instructions on doing this. If I find them again I will post them up.

 

[Southpaw]

LOL. I have pretty thick skin. I can take the abuse. LOL.

Bear in mind that I admit that I know NOTHING about shooting. I don't even know if there is an area in the rifle range for 25 yards. I'll have to check. I am totally learning at this point.

Treat me like the firearms virgin I am.

And good.. because I didn't mean nothing personal..

However I was taught, and not that that makes a difference it's just my experience, however start at 25 or so and work out from there. See if you have to drift at 25 yards, if not then move out to 50, if you need to adjust you Point of Aim to hit around Bullseye then perhaps it's the gun and as MajorMax said you may need to adjust. Also, I would suggest bench resting the rifle and negating operator movement. The bayonet factor shouldn't have no bearing on the rifle if your bench rest it..

BTW I love my M44... I have some nice high end rifles, but nothing beats the Mosin... Enjoy it.. awesome gun.

 

[cybrhick]

And good.. because I didn't mean nothing personal..

However I was taught, and not that that makes a difference it's just my experience, however start at 25 or so and work out from there. See if you have to drift at 25 yards, if not then move out to 50, if you need to adjust you Point of Aim to hit around Bullseye then perhaps it's the gun and as MajorMax said you may need to adjust. Also, I would suggest bench resting the rifle and negating operator movement. The bayonet factor shouldn't have no bearing on the rifle if your bench rest it..

BTW I love my M44... I have some nice high end rifles, but nothing beats the Mosin... Enjoy it.. awesome gun.

Well, it happens to be my only gun so far, so by default, it is my favorite.

 

[TimberWolf7.62]

Drifting the sight means you align the front sight with where the rifle is hitting. If it is shooting to the left, you need to push the front sight over to the left. How you push it is, optimally, with a brass rod (called a drift). Put the drift against the sight and tap the other end of the drift with a hammer. This will cause the sight to move in its groove. Keep tapping and shooting until the sights are on the point that the rifle is hitting.

Or http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/lt2/index.asp
front sight adjustment tool

 

[Southpaw]

Well, it happens to be my only gun so far, so by default, it is my favorite.

Well good luck.. I am sure it will not be your last rifle. I'm not expert but again I say start at 25, then 50 then 75 then 100 bench rested and then compare it to you off hand shootin at the same course. Startin at 100 can be discouraging ... Let us know how everything works out.

 

[cybrhick]

Drifting the sight means you align the front sight with where the rifle is hitting. If it is shooting to the left, you need to push the front sight over to the left. How you push it is, optimally, with a brass rod (called a drift). Put the drift against the sight and tap the other end of the drift with a hammer. This will cause the sight to move in its groove. Keep tapping and shooting until the sights are on the point that the rifle is hitting.

Or Collecting and Shooting the Military Surplus Rifle (2005) - Surplusrifle.com
front sight adjustment tool

Many thanks. AWESOME. I can make one of those. I am a cnc machinist.

 

[cybrhick]

Well good luck.. I am sure it will not be your last rifle. I'm not expert but again I say start at 25, then 50 then 75 then 100 bench rested and then compare it to you off hand shootin at the same course. Startin at 100 can be discouraging ... Let us know how everything works out.

BTW, I'm a southpaw as well.

 

[Southpaw]

BTW, I'm a southpaw as well.

Very cool "TX HICK" (Can't beat that plate )

 

[cybrhick]

Very cool "TX HICK" (Can't beat that plate )

Most everyone knows me by Hick.

 

[308nato]

Q. Why does my M44 shoot so far to the left (or right) of the point of aim?
A. M44s were sighted in with the bayonet extended. Shooting with the bayonet stowed affects the barrel harmonics and can change the point of impact by as much as 1 foot per 100 yards. Not all M44s are effected this much or even at all. Either shoot with the bayonet extended or drift the front sight to compensate for the difference.

From Mosin Nagant FAQs

+ 1 on that mine shoots better with the bayonet extended also .

 

[cybrhick]

+ 1 on that mine shoots better with the bayonet extended also .

I may just have to adjust mine in, as I have no idea where to buy just the bayonett.

 

[TimberWolf7.62]

I am a cnc machinist.

REALLY? We might have to work a deal or two. I want a couple of these for starters:
mini-14gb clone bayo lug/front sight assembly - PerfectUnion BBS

I don't care about the bayonet lug part.

Or maybe this sight -- search (control-F) for "tactical 3 blade" (without the " ")

 

[M. Sage]

The M44 isn't a good beginner rifle. It's what you hand to someone you're going to send off to participate in a human wave attack... They're alright rifles (I own two Mosins, love 'em both), but they're not exactly good for learning, partly because of recoil and muzzle blast. It's going to teach you to flinch. They're also somewhat balky to operate, the Soviet models have crap triggers, the sights aren't very good... I could go on. They're pretty good rifles once you've got the hang of rifles, but IMO they're not great to learn on.

Make sure if you shoot surplus ammo with it that you clean the rifle with something water-based. The military ammunition has primers that create salt when they burn (the ammo is called "corrosive" because of this), hot soapy water will take that salt right out of the barrel and prevent rust.

Scrape a hundred bucks together and invest in a Marlin model 60. It's a .22, but a great rifle to learn on. The pluses to the .22 are lower recoil (almost none), less noise, cheap ammo... If you want to get a really good rifle to learn on, I can't say enough about a run of the mill AR-15.

 

[Texas1911]

I may just have to adjust mine in, as I have no idea where to buy just the bayonett.

Please make your sig picture smaller, it's a cool pic, just it's a bit big for the forum.