I have mixed feelings on this....

[mongoose]

That narrative is a lie. They went to the correct address, stop believing misinformation spread by Ben Crump.

If it was the correct address, why wasn't there a woman with the snot beat out of her in the apartment.

 

[cycleguy2300]

As an AF veteran I really am struggling with this incident. The airman legally owned the gun and was licensed to carry it. He was in his own residence. The officer identified himself but the young airman was facetiming with his gf and didn' hear the verbal commands, just the knocking. He answered the door with his firearm in his hand. The officer reacted and opened fire. And it was the wrong residence for the domestic call.. What are your thoughts?

https://nypost.com/2024/05/09/us-news/robert-fortson-bodycam-florida-deputy-fired-without-warning/

Do I bother explaining the law and case law?

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[Sasquatch]

<>

”When he has annoucing himself as a police officer while knocking, its reasonable to expect that the person on the other side of that door *knows* that he's a police officer’’

You are NUTS !

Area LEO’s tell that virtually every criminal home invasion begins with a loud knock and “Open-up, Police!”

leVieux

,.

I think you need to take your meds, doc.

Home invasions are very rare. They're also mostly targetted - meaning criminals targetting other competing criminals, its extremely rare for a random innocent person to be targetted of a home invasion. It happens, but not that often - and if you'd bothered to read my posts, I did say that yes, sometimes criminals do impersonate police. But for every criminal impersonating a cop to do a home invasion, there are literally tens of thousands of law enforcement encounters with citizens that begin with a knock and announcement of "POLICE" or "SHERIFF" that are legitimate, and it is still reasonable to expect that the person on the other side of the door announcing themselves as the police is, surprise, the police.

Typical home invasions that begin with a knock and screams of "police" are drug dealers hitting other drug dealers - either to kill them, or steal their drugs / cash/ guns to hurt their business and send a message. Life is not a Hollywood movie where Susie McApplebottom is sitting on her couch knitting a sweater while Jimmy and Janey play quietly on the floor and John McApplebottom reads his paper smoking a pipe when masked thugs posing as police kick the door to rob them. That scenario is damn rare.

Its also reasonable that if you don't think its the police - to not open the fuckin' door. Pick up your phone, call 9-1-1 and say "someone is banging on my door shouting they're the police, I'm at 123 XYZ avenue in apartment 1401" - the dispatcher will check the active calls and either confirm that "yep, that's the police" or "no, we don't have a call there, don't open your door we're sending the real police to investigate"

If you don't think its the police banging on your door - the last thing you should do is open your door for a police impersonator. If you DO think its the police knocking on your door, the last thing you should do is go answer the damn door with a gun in your hand expecting not to either be staring down the barrel of their guns, or worse, getting yourself killed. Do you have the right to be stupid? Yes. Do you have the right to be armed in your home? Yes. Do you have a right to be stupid while being armed? Sure, but that's not going to lead to a good end for anyone. Your rights stop where another's begins. My right to wildly swing my fist in the air ends at your nose.

If it was the correct address, why wasn't there a woman with the snot beat out of her in the apartment.

Because there was no actual domestic violence in progress? Because some dumbshit neighbor either misheard something, or made something up and called 9-1-1. It happens a lot. Someone will hear or see something and embellish it on the phone with a dispatcher, or they completely misinterpret what they're hearing or seeing. That's why police show up to investigate, to learn what actually happened instead of just rolling up and arresting the first person they see.

I will make an assumption, not having the entire body cam from the time the officer got out of his car, to the time of the shooting out yet, that this officer didn't hang out outside the apartment for a minute or two to listen before attempting contact. That extra time could've let his backup officers arrive and maybe they would've taken a different approach - but that's speculation. Its also entirely possible that when the deputy arrived, he did hear *something* loud inside, and its also possible the building is well insulated enough to muffle the sound and be indistinguishable - I don't know. From a tactics standpoint, listening for a moment to hear what's going on in the place is pretty typical - are there screams, do you hear crying, does it sound like there's a fight going on? Is there loud music or TV playing that would mask any of those sounds? We don't know any of that yet.

 

[Havok1]

I will make an assumption, not having the entire body cam from the time the officer got out of his car, to the time of the shooting out yet, that this officer didn't hang out outside the apartment for a minute or two to listen before attempting contact. That extra time could've let his backup officers arrive and maybe they would've taken a different approach - but that's speculation. Its also entirely possible that when the deputy arrived, he did hear *something* loud inside, and its also possible the building is well insulated enough to muffle the sound and be indistinguishable - I don't know. From a tactics standpoint, listening for a moment to hear what's going on in the place is pretty typical - are there screams, do you hear crying, does it sound like there's a fight going on? Is there loud music or TV playing that would mask any of those sounds? We don't know any of that yet.

That video is on YouTube.

 

[V-Tach]

 

[brashears9567]

No excuse for that shit. I hope he's tried, convicted, and faces one hell of a long sentence.


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[Johnny Diamond]

Put him in GP.

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[TheDan]

The worst part were the 4/5 shots then followed by "drop the gun"

He forgot to yell "stop resisting", too

if somebody is pounding on my door while I’m on my phone, the last thing I’m interested in is grabbing a gun and answering the door; I’m just going to ignore that shit if I’m not expecting somebody. If I’m going to answer the door, I need to get off the phone and use the GD peephole before I open it.

Shit like this is why I never answer the door at all (exception for Tiff's treats delivery). There's been times in the past I've come to the door armed to look through the peep hole, but I'm just getting ready in case someone kicks it in; still wouldn't answer the door. Looking out the peep hole would have done no good in this instance with the deputy hiding from it. I've got cameras now that you can't approach my door without being caught on so peep hole is superfluous.

 

[Big Green]

I keep going back to arfcom and I wish I was surprised by the amount of folks that saying murdering this young man in his own home for having a weapon was justified.

Where are all these good officers we’re not supposed to lump altogether when one screws up? Not a single one has said he shouldn’t have shot him.

 

[majormadmax]

I keep going back to arfcom and I wish I was surprised by the amount of folks that saying murdering this young man in his own home for having a weapon was justified.

Where are all these good officers we’re not supposed to lump altogether when one screws up? Not a single one has said he shouldn’t have shot him.

Using BARF.com to get a feel for what real LEOs feel about this shooting is ridiculous.

Hell, getting any information off BARF.com is ridiculous!

That forum went down the shitter years ago...

 

[S13]

I'm not sure how I would have responded to that call. It should have been a two unit response however.

 

[Big Green]

arfcom had a mod that is/was a cop in Miami - his handle was MiamiJBT - Jack Booted Thug. I heard he was 'promoted' after the site was sold, but I'm not sure if he's still around now. He was very much in the "only cops should have guns" camp and was happy to brag about jacking folks up for BS. To have this person as a mod shows the quality of discussion they were looking for.

He’s still there. Many, if not most, of the mods are cops.

Lot of truth in that first sentence.

 

[V-Tach]

I will say that standing on either side of the door is due to their training and not trying to avoid the peephole. That is in case someone shoots through the door they are not hit. I personally know an officer that would have been hit if he had been standing in front of the door when he was shot at. Still no excuse for what happened.

 

[FireInTheWire]

Damn... talk about a terrible scenario.

But here are 2 things- I never answer my door without identifying who's standing on my porch. I understand not everyone has that ability. 2nd- When I do bring a gun, you will not see it.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Yep the LEO killed someone but everyone using the word murder to describe what happened needs to understand what that word means. Common meaning is:

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

There was no pre-meditation. If you want to get into whether the act was unlawful, go review the relevant Florida laws.

Chapter 782 Section 04 - 2023 Florida Statutes

m.flsenate.gov

 

[Eastexasrick]

Florida has a version of negligent homicide called Manslaughter;

Florida Statute Section 782.07(1),

In short manslaughter is defined as the “killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification,” and “in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder.” Although not defined by statute, manslaughter is considered voluntary when a killing happens in the heat of the moment without planning. Manslaughter is considered involuntary when a killing happens as a result of recklessness or negligence. If convicted of manslaughter under Florida law, a convicted person faces a second-degree felony which results in jail time of up to fifteen years and a fine of up to $10,000

 

[toddnjoyce]

Florida has a version of negligent homicide called Manslaughter;

Florida Statute Section 782.07(1),

In short manslaughter is defined as the “killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification,” and “in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder.” Although not defined by statute, manslaughter is considered voluntary when a killing happens in the heat of the moment without planning. Manslaughter is considered involuntary when a killing happens as a result of recklessness or negligence. If convicted of manslaughter under Florida law, a convicted person faces a second-degree felony which results in jail time of up to fifteen years and a fine of up to $10,000

Florida also has justified use of force/deadly force statutes. The question is whether the LEOs use of deadly force was justified under their law. That decision be informed by the officer involved shooting investigation which should also include compliance with departmental policy/procedure.

 

[Axxe55]

LEO'S ARE SUPPOSETO BE PROFESSIONALS SO WHY SHOULDN'T WE EXPECT RHEM TO ACT LIKE THEY ARE!

 

[S13]

He’s still there. Many, if not most, of the mods are cops.

Lot of truth in that first sentence.
View attachment 452106

just to provide the latest info


He is no longer a mod.

He is only an occasional poster now.

He is the FL state rep for the GOA and ran for the NRA board to oppose people like Marion Hammer. He didn't win.

I can understand why some don't like him, but he has done a ton of work for promoting the 2nd Amendment in Florida.


I don't think the mods over there are as cop heavy as they used to be. But the owners are definitely pro law enforcement. Whether that is good or bad is for you to decide.

 

[innominate]

just to provide the latest info


He is no longer a mod.

He is only an occasional poster now.

He is the FL state rep for the GOA and ran for the NRA board to oppose people like Marion Hammer. He didn't win.

I can understand why some don't like him, but he has done a ton of work for promoting the 2nd Amendment in Florida.


I don't think the mods over there are as cop heavy as they used to be. But the owners are definitely pro law enforcement. Whether that is good or bad is for you to decide.

Just wondering what the truth is in all this. Is he for the 2A? Does he think only officials of the state should be armed? Being cop heavy isn't a bad thing in itself. Depends on the cop.