Holographic vs reflex

[A.Texas.Yankee]

Okay, so I don't want to spark a which is better (which I am sure it will) but I am curious to know what the real differences are other then specs. I know all red dots are reflex sites but not sure if the parallax thing is a big deal or not. Like the holo sight, but does anyone make a true holographic sight besides EOTech? Is it worth it to spend $400+ on a name brand red dot?

Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

 

[grasshopperglock]

There's a butt load on both sides. Look at Cmore sights.

Holo or red dots do not have parallax. It's the same thing, having a red dot on your car windshield. There is no power to the sight.

As for the price being worth it. Yes on some. I have played with red dots alot. Until I came across a CompM4. I mounted it on a 10/22.

Field use determines the best. That sight was amazing. The glass was air clear. The adjustments sounded like a Snap-On racket. The mount was stronger then the rail I mounted it to. The only way that sight would lose zero is if the barrel got bent. NO BS. It REFUSED to lose zero. Even after a hit that would have knocked a tasco completely off the rifle.

Good red dots also keep their value. You can sell one for 75% what you paid for it, years ago. At the drop of a hat.

Before you buy a EoTech, look up reviews. Some models suck. Reports of the sight going down with recoil from a 223.

Buy as much sight as you can afford. It does make a difference. It may suck having to dish out the money. But after a good hunt or session, and you see what a good sight can do....you'll never look back.

 

[mantawolf]

Red dot scopes do suffer from parallax issues. Older EoTech sights would shut down from the recoil because the batteries were inline with recoil, an issue that has been addressed. holographic sights dont suffer from parallax problems and you could shoot the glass out of them and still have a working sight. Not so with a red dot. Red dots are however considerably cheaper. Red dots are also generally at least 2MOA in size, EoTechs HWS is 1MOA with a 65MOA circle

Personally, I like my EoTech over a red dot. Unless you are spending a lot of money on a Trijicon or something.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Red dot scopes do suffer from parallax issues. Older EoTech sights would shut down from the recoil because the batteries were inline with recoil, an issue that has been addressed. holographic sights dont suffer from parallax problems and you could shoot the glass out of them and still have a working sight. Not so with a red dot. Red dots are however considerably cheaper. Red dots are also generally at least 2MOA in size, EoTechs HWS is 1MOA with a 65MOA circle

Personally, I like my EoTech over a red dot. Unless you are spending a lot of money on a Trijicon or something.

Don't forget field of view between them. Some red dots give you a tunnel view(Aimpoint dang sure will). But are easier to line up. Vs a heads up sight that has more field of view and is harder to line up.

It's like the tube allows you to find the dot quicker. Due to having to look down it to sight. A heads up might be cranked off to the side, requiring a hair more time to find the "dot" picture.

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

Don't forget field of view between them. Some red dots give you a tunnel view(Aimpoint dang sure will). But are easier to line up. Vs a heads up sight that has more field of view and is harder to line up.

It's like the tube allows you to find the dot quicker. Due to having to look down it to sight. A heads up might be cranked off to the side, requiring a hair more time to find the "dot" picture.

So shooting with both eyes open harder on red dots like Aimpoint?

Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

 

[grasshopperglock]

So shooting with both eyes open harder on red dots like Aimpoint?

Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

No, the red dot will appear in both eyes, with both types of sights. I forgot what that it's called. They have a term for it. I read something a while ago that had the sight vs sight. Think of it like this. Do the "ok" sign with your fingers. Imagine a red dot in the center of the finger and thumb.

Now do the same with a short piece of pipe. Imagine a red dot in the center.

Hold both methods up fast. You'll notice that the pipe, by nature, tends to line up straight, more control over the center view. VS the fingers.

But unlike the pipe, the finger thing has more of a field of view of the close surrounding area. The pipe tends to cut some of that down. You get a thick black ring with the pipe, around the center view. That blocks some sight.

Am I making sense here?

I would use a heads up sight on a pistol. And a red dot on a rifle. IMHO, you have more long distance sight pic control with a tube type red dot on a rifle. VS a heads up on the same.

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

No, the red dot will appear in both eyes, with both types of sights. I forgot what that it's called. They have a term for it. I read something a while ago that had the sight vs sight. Think of it like this. Do the "ok" sign with your fingers. Imagine a red dot in the center of the finger and thumb.

Now do the same with a short piece of pipe. Imagine a red dot in the center.

Hold both methods up fast. You'll notice that the pipe, by nature, tends to line up straight, more control over the center view. VS the fingers.

But unlike the pipe, the finger thing has more of a field of view of the close surrounding area. The pipe tends to cut some of that down. You get a thick black ring with the pipe, around the center view. That blocks some sight.

Am I making sense here?

I would use a heads up sight on a pistol. And a red dot on a rifle. IMHO, you have more long distance sight pic control with a tube type red dot on a rifle. VS a heads up on the same.

That makes sense. So for medium to long range a red dot probably better then and have iron sights for close range? What about these scopes I see with illuminated reticles? Are they parallax free? Or offer open both eyes open shooting? Or are they a hunting scope?

Guess I should mention this is for an LR308.

Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

Also what about the magnifier with a red dot any issues there?

Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

 

[grasshopperglock]

That makes sense. So for medium to long range a red dot probably better then with iron sight close range? What about these scopes I see with illuminated reticles? Are they parallax free? Or offer open both eyes open shooting? Or are they a hunting scope?

Guess I should mention this is for an LR308.

Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

Iron sights do not compare to red dots. A red dot will increase the aiming efficacy beyond what open sights can. You have to line up sights. With red dots, simply place dot on target, pull trigger. Regardless of the cant of the rifle.

I have a Trijicon 1-4 accupoint. It can be used with both eyes open. It's not as easy as with a red dot, but you can shoot quick that way. You will notice eye strain due to the power of 1X. And no, it's not parallax free. At some longer range you still get wiggle of the triangle.


One of the Mods on here, Sage. Does three gun. The lower power 1-4 scopes are popular for these matches. They are excellent close range hunting scopes. Giving you the ability to basically use a scope as a close range red dot, and a long range sight.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Also what about the magnifier with a red dot any issues there?

Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

LOL...i don't know. Never used one. I did however use a pair of bino's behind the CompM4. So I could get a closer look at where the rifle was hitting at 100yards. makes sight in easier at long range. The dot looked bigger also. Like a 5" blob at 100yards with the binos.

You can stick a rifle scope behind red dots and see what it'll look like with a magnifier.

It's also a trick for non illuminated scopes. Mount a red dot forward of the scope. Any power. And -snap-you have an illuminated scope. But the dot will be alot bigger then a regular illuminated scope.

 

[tussery]

Red dot scopes do suffer from parallax issues. Older EoTech sights would shut down from the recoil because the batteries were inline with recoil, an issue that has been addressed. holographic sights dont suffer from parallax problems and you could shoot the glass out of them and still have a working sight. Not so with a red dot. Red dots are however considerably cheaper. Red dots are also generally at least 2MOA in size, EoTechs HWS is 1MOA with a 65MOA circle

Personally, I like my EoTech over a red dot. Unless you are spending a lot of money on a Trijicon or something.

You spread false information.

1: EOTechs suffer from parallax issues.
2: You can still shoot out of an Aimpoint with a broken lens.

 

[grasshopperglock]

You spread false information.

1: EOTechs suffer from parallax issues.
2: You can still shoot out of an Aimpoint with a broken lens.

I was gonna call him on that. Did some reading. Ive never owned a EoTech

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_weapon_sight

the holographic sight is not "parallax free", having an aim-point that can move with eye position. This can be compensated for by having a holographic image that is set at a finite distance with parallax due to eye movement being size of the optical window at close range and diminishing to zero at the set distance (usually around a desired target range of 100 yards).[SUP][3]

[/SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_dot_sight

Like other reflector sights, the collimated image of the red dot is only truly parallax free at infinity, with an error circle equal to the diameter of the collimating optics for any target at a finite distance.[SUP][3][/SUP] This is compensated for by keeping the dot in the middle of the optical window (sighting down the sight's optical axis).[SUP][4][/SUP] Some manufacturers modify the focus of the LED/optical collimator combination, making models with the optical collimator set to focus the dot at a finite distance. These have a maximum amount of parallax due to eye movement, equal to the size of the optical window, at close range, diminishing to a minimal amount at the set distance (somewhere around a desired target range of 25-50 yards).[SUP][5][/SUP]

Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

The most popular misconception about dot sights is that some models are blessed with complete freedom from parallax. Nonsense! Parallax exists in all dot sights because of the nature of the sight design itself. While it is true that all sights do adjust for off-center parallax at particular distances, they become more vulnerable to the problem at other distances.

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

So upon further research, and from EOTech support themselves, they are not parallax free at less than 50 yds but are pretty darn close. Even under 50 yds the margin is only 1.5 inches @ 15 feet or so (which is why I'm thinking the EOTech have the 65 MOA around the 1 MOA). And continually smaller the longer the distance when sighted in for 100 yds which it is parallax free past 50 yds. This is the exact same parallax as a high quality red dot tube reflex sight. The two each have a draw back. Red dot is going to better battery life due to LED powered reticle as opposed to laser in holo. And the reflective coating on the red dot can provide a less clear picture as well as be more noticeable to light glare from in front of the optic (i.e. Being spotted by a threat).

So one is not better than the other, but just different in nature. Dang it, that doesn't make my decision easier.


Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

 

[grasshopperglock]

So upon further research, and from EOTech support themselves, they are not parallax free at less than 50 yds but are pretty darn close. Even under 50 yds the margin is only 1.5 inches @ 15 feet or so (which is why I'm thinking the EOTech have the 65 MOA around the 1 MOA). And continually smaller the longer the distance when sighted in for 100 yds which it is parallax free past 50 yds. This is the exact same parallax as a high quality red dot tube reflex sight. The two each have a draw back. Red dot is going to better battery life due to LED powered reticle as opposed to laser in holo. And the reflective coating on the red dot can provide a less clear picture as well as be more noticeable to light glare from in front of the optic (i.e. Being spotted by a threat).

So one is not better than the other, but just different in nature. Dang it, that doesn't make my decision easier.


Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

The lens covers for red dots seal better then the EO jobs. The mounts are way better then the flat belly rail mount on the Eo. More options.

I never liked the funky looking lens covers they made for the EoTech. Scope lens cover will work on a Aimpoint.

The fit between night vision and sight is better with the Aimpoint.

 

[M. Sage]

I've owned two EOTechs and still own an Aimpoint Comp M2. I haven't noticed a difference in time to acquire and engage between the two (and I've used both against the timer), and I haven't noticed a huge difference in accuracy. The EOTech was a little easier to for finer aiming, but I attributed that to the 1 MOA dot vs 4 MOA for the Aimpoint.

Either works equally well with both eyes open. In fact, that's how they're meant to be used; both eyes open, focus on the target. The Aimpoint is on my AK, which is my HD rifle. The front lens cover stays down so that I won't have to readjust intensity depending on whether the lights are on or off in my house if I need the rifle. Set it, forget it. Works fine and I've hit targets at 250 yards that way.

That's the big advantage I see in the Aimpoint vs the EOTech - battery life. I had horrible battery life in the EOTechs I've owned, but the Aimpoint eats about a battery a year, even though the EOTech was only turned on when I was shooting or practicing, and the Aimpoint is turned on right now, and will be when I'm asleep tonight, and at work tomorrow, and... If you're thinking I never turn my Aimpoint off, you're correct.

Red dot scopes do suffer from parallax issues. Older EoTech sights would shut down from the recoil because the batteries were inline with recoil, an issue that has been addressed. holographic sights dont suffer from parallax problems and you could shoot the glass out of them and still have a working sight. Not so with a red dot. Red dots are however considerably cheaper. Red dots are also generally at least 2MOA in size, EoTechs HWS is 1MOA with a 65MOA circle

Personally, I like my EoTech over a red dot. Unless you are spending a lot of money on a Trijicon or something.

There is some parallax with EOTech sights, too. I don't think you can get rid of it entirely with any optics system.

 

[cajunautoxer]

I use Aimpoints and just change the batteries every Jan. It's great. For a .308 I'd so with a Burris 1-4x and a nice mount if your wanting to spend round $400

 

[grasshopperglock]

I currently have an Aimpoint Pro.

I wouldn't trade it for a Eo. 3 year batt life. Thats three years of run time. I doubt I'll have to buy a battery for 7 years.

 

[M. Sage]

I use Aimpoints and just change the batteries every Jan. It's great. For a .308 I'd so with a Burris 1-4x and a nice mount if your wanting to spend round $400

I've got a cheap (Millett) 1-4X on my AR. You trade a little weight for it and maybe a little utility in close, but it makes an extremely versatile setup. Reasonable accuracy from 5 feet to 500 yards? You've got it.

 

[A.Texas.Yankee]

I've got a cheap (Millett) 1-4X on my AR. You trade a little weight for it and maybe a little utility in close, but it makes an extremely versatile setup. Reasonable accuracy from 5 feet to 500 yards? You've got it.

Ok, so I'm leaning towards the red dot. What are some red recommendations?

Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

 

[grasshopperglock]

Ok, so I'm leaning towards the red dot. What are some red recommendations?

Thoughts to written word from my EVO LTE

Aimpoint Pro. It runs in around $400. It's the best deal on a major brand of red dot.