Define "concealed" or "in plain sight"

[TommyT]

Hello all, I am a gun carrying citizen that exercises my right under HB1815. Yesterday morning I was stopped by my local PD for no front license plate. Upon our interaction, the officer saw my pistol that I keep under my steering wheel in between my legs. After that all hell broke loose. I was held at gun point and told to exit my vehicle. Within what felt like seconds, more units arrived again with guns drawn after I was already at the back of my truck. The only questions I was asked were am I a police officer and why did I have it, both in succession to fast for me to even answer before his gun was drawn down on me. Spent the day in county for that. My question is what is the definition of concealed or in plain sight? From his angle which is basically head in my window, of course it can be seen. But from a normal passer by or another vehicle sitting in traffic, not a chance it can be seen. And for those LEO's out there....was this the correct procedure for them to use? I really feel it was overkill. They asked those questions but never waited for a response, and took me straight to the PD. Im a clean cut caucasian driving a nice vehicle that posed no threat and followed commands as well as I could. They were coming at me very quickly. Now im being charged with unlawful carry and Im pissed to say the very least. Im just looking for feedback on how I should proceed and if this was the correct way it should have went down. Thanks guys,
Tommy

 

[chris211]

Sounds to me like your location to place your firearm will be considered in plain sight, since, well....someone else could see it, therefore it was obviously not concealed.

Far as the questions, they already knew the answer. If you had been a police officers etc, you would have said so at the beginning of the stop.

 

[TommyT]

So does in plain sight mean from any vantage point imaginable? Window down and standing right next to my vehicle yes it can be seen. Other than that not at all.

 

[chris211]

con·ceal
verb /kənˈsēl/ 
concealed, past participle; concealed, past tense; concealing, present participle; conceals, 3rd person singular present

1. Keep from sight; hide
2. Keep (something) secret; prevent from being known or noticed

 

[Dcav]

Yes that is plain sight.

 

[Younggun]

Car carry defined it. As your weapon not in plain sight and goes on with alittle more about a person not being able to see it. Not quite the same as concealed to me but that is probably a matter of semantics

You need to get a lawyer. .


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[Younggun]

It will also depend on the vehicle. Some cars would require Laing in the floor board to see that area. If it is visible looking in the window the probable got you.


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[TexasRedneck]

Congratulations.....I know the rig you have, and you found out the hard way that the stupid SOB selling it has his head up his ass - that is NOT concealed. You need a lawyer.....now.

 

[chris211]

I would get a lawyer. Then you at least have a chance of beating or reducing any charges.

I would think, at least for me, when I have a firearm in my car, the MAIN person I would want it out of "plain sight" of would be a traffic officier making a stop on me.

 

[TommyT]

I have a lawyer. Maybe I am off my rocker thinking this is crazy. Seems everyone agrees I was in the wrong. That sure is one heck of a charge for a err in judgement on placement.

 

[TommyT]

Again, im more than likely going to be contested on this, but, would it have been to much to get me out of the vehicle, make sure im clean and then give me a lesson on where I need to keep it? Instead of going all dirty harry dont pass go dont collect 200$ straight to jail route it took.

 

[chris211]

Each Officer is going to be different.

 

[mantawolf]

While it may seem like an overkill to you, imagine instead that you are the bad guy and he walks up. The officer has to assume the worst if he wants to go home to see his family at night.

Sad state but read the news, lots of bad guys and they are braver by the day.

 

[txinvestigator]

Hello all, I am a gun carrying citizen that exercises my right under HB1815.

What is "HB1815"? If you refer to the bill from the 2007 legislative session then you refer to it wrong. That is no longer a bill. It hsa codified into law in section 46.02 of the Texas Penal code. Proper reference would include the legislative session.

Yesterday morning I was stopped by my local PD for no front license plate. Upon our interaction, the officer saw my pistol that I keep under my steering wheel in between my legs.

There you go. If he saw it from your window I would say it is in plain view.

My question is what is the definition of concealed or in plain sight? From his angle which is basically head in my window, of course it can be seen. But from a normal passer by or another vehicle sitting in traffic, not a chance it can be seen. And for those LEO's out there....was this the correct procedure for them to use? I really feel it was overkill. They asked those questions but never waited for a response, and took me straight to the PD. Im a clean cut caucasian driving a nice vehicle that posed no threat and followed commands as well as I could. They were coming at me very quickly. Now im being charged with unlawful carry and Im pissed to say the very least. Im just looking for feedback on how I should proceed and if this was the correct way it should have went down. Thanks guys,
Tommy

Yes, it was a correct procedure. You may know you are no threat, and I do not see what your skin color has to do with anything. White folk kill cops all he time. You were committing a crime with a deadly weapon. The response was appropriate.

 

[txinvestigator]

So does in plain sight mean from any vantage point imaginable? Window down and standing right next to my vehicle yes it can be seen. Other than that not at all.

You will find out in court. Your attorney will undoubtedly research case law.

 

[txinvestigator]

con·ceal
verb /kənˈsēl/ 
concealed, past participle; concealed, past tense; concealing, present participle; conceals, 3rd person singular present

1. Keep from sight; hide
2. Keep (something) secret; prevent from being known or noticed

46.02 does not use the word conceal.

the word concealed is defined in the Texas Government Code.

 

[txinvestigator]

Again, im more than likely going to be contested on this, but, would it have been to much to get me out of the vehicle, make sure im clean and then give me a lesson on where I need to keep it? Instead of going all dirty harry dont pass go dont collect 200$ straight to jail route it took.

You are in the wrong place for the argument. It is not a cops job to teach people how to behave. They enforce the law while trying to stay alive. You were not "clean" whatever that means. You were committing a Class A misdemeanor with a deadly weapon.

 

[majormadmax]

If the officer saw it from outside the vehicle, then it must have been in plain sight. If he was searching the vehicle and discovered it concealed, then you have a valid defense that it wasn't in plain sight.

I hate to say it, but i don't think you have a good defense; hopefully your lawyer knows his stuff and will be able to plea bargain to a lesser charge.

You may be pissed but the bottom line is that you were not in accordance with the law for vehiclular carry. The officer's response was valid. He didn't know you from Adam or what your intentions were. It's not his fault, it's yours...

 

[txinvestigator]

Car carry defined it. As your weapon not in plain sight and goes on with alittle more about a person not being able to see it. Not quite the same as concealed to me but that is probably a matter of semantics

You need to get a lawyer. .


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It has nothing to do with "semantics". Since the cop saw it from the window, it seems clear to me it was in plain sight.

 

[majormadmax]

I would think, at least for me, when I have a firearm in my car, the MAIN person I would want it out of "plain sight" of would be a traffic officier making a stop on me.

The reason you want it out of "plain sight" is because that is what the law says. That doesn't mean just during traffic stops, that means every time, all the time.