Crimping .45 auto

[Zen]

Here's my problem - I know that .45auto head spaces off the case mouth so a light crimp is typically recommended.

I also know that Browning was born in a nitrocellulose explosion of awesome and genius. Seems to me, that as long as the gap between the rim thickness and the extractor groove cut doesn't exceed the firing pin protrusion then the head space really doesn't matter as the case is held against the breech face. Isn't that one of the reasons it's so dang reliable?

So, my problem. When I perform a light crimp, I notice that when I cycle my rounds through my 1911, the bullet gets pushed back sometimes as much as .05". A heavier crimp seems, to me at least, to be the only way to prevent that.

Am I correct that 1) That's the obvious solution and 2) it won't really effect the head space and, therefore, performance of the rounds?

Or am I missing some other mistake that I'm making that causing this back seating of the bullets?

 

[JesseCJC]

what brass are you using? I get bullet setback when using Remmington (R-P) when using .451 projectiles. I set these aside to use for lead projectiles instead. If you are getting setback that much you are either belling too much, not removing the bell completely or dont have the seat/crimp die set up properly, or a combo of any of the above listed. A crimp is not needed in a pistol round if the dies are set up properly. Speaking of which, what dies are you using?

Bullet setback will increase your pressure in the round and I would really get the process corrected as opposed to worrying about accuracy foremost.

 

[Bullseye Shooter]

You didn't say what you consider a light crimp. If you taper crimp your rounds to measure between .468 and .472 you should not have any problems with either jacketed or lead bullets.

 

[Zen]

.45 issue

On .45's I'm using a set of Lee Dies my dad threw over to me for my birthday last year.

This is remington nickel brass. It's the first time I've used it, I usually use the cheap bags of winchester or reclaimed range brass.

This is, actually, probably an issue with expanding the case mouth either too much or not sizing it back down right. My bullet seats well but doesn't simply drop into the case or anything. Might be time to just back everything back out and set 'em up again.

I haven't noticed it when I'm loading 230gr balls but I've been screwing around with the lighter weight XTP's lately and just started seeing it.

 

[Charlie]

You didn't say what you consider a light crimp. If you taper crimp your rounds to measure between .468 and .472 you should not have any problems with either jacketed or lead bullets.

The above info is right on the money! Stay as close to .470 as you can and you should have no problems. I know this as I have done it incorrectly several times in my hand loading early years.

 

[robocop10mm]

I don't bother to measure the crimp. I eyeball the taper crimp so there is a noticeable crimp, but I can still feel the edge of the mouth with a fingernail. I never have a problem with set back.

 

[Texasjack]

Letting the bullet get pushed back into the case is dangerous. It can cause excessive pressure. If you're using the taper crimp correctly, that shouldn't be a problem.

Just about every reference I've seen uses the term "light crimp". I've come to believe that they say that to keep people from crushing the case into the bullet. (There are people that will do that sort of thing in a heartbeat.)

You didn't really confirm that you're using a taper crimp and not a roll crimp.

 

[Major Woody]

I use a four hole turret press and use the Lee factory crimp die.

 

[country_boy]

I use a four hole turret press and use the Lee factory crimp die.

Same. I do a light crimp.

 

[Army 1911]

You want to bell the case just enough for the bullet to sit there. Measure your crimp. .469 t0 .470 is what I have read is the desired range. Also what is your COL. If you are getting setback your bullet could be hitting the lands and causing setback with the light crimp. On round nose, 2.65 works for me in all my pistols.

 

[RogerEMT]

Ok.. So I keep hearing mixed things.. Crimp or not to crimp, that is the question. If you place a complete pistol round in your hand (between thumb and pointer finger), can you manually push the bullet down further by applying force? I tried this and it worked.. and also made me nervous because of the pressures going up. I don't want my bullet moving! A man I work with has been loading for years and is saying "Don't crimp! Because of the headspace factor. Well, I crimped, and haven't had a single problem. And, the round doesn't move anymore. With the round moving, was that because there was no crimp or because the dies weren't set up right? Also, When I didn't crimp, the round would get caught on the lip that feeds the round into the barrel, and it would get hung up on the case mouth because it wasn't tucked in... Hmmmm...

 

[Charlie]

Although it is technically a crimp, it's a light crimp..........just enough to tighten against the bullet and keep it in place.

 

[TexMex247]

I use a Lee FCD(factory crimp die) to apply a taper crimp. I have never measured my rounds at the crimp but I have never had a problem either. With the FCD you are actually resizing the bullet as well as it rams through the sizing bushing built into it. With lead bullets, I set my die up 3/4 to one full turn in after I run the cartridge through the sizer. I do this by first backing it out 2 turns and running the cartridge all the way up. I adjust the crimper back down till it touches the case then I back out the round and turn it 3/4 to 1 full turn back in and crimp. For jacketed bullets, I use only a 1/2 turn to crimp the rounds. Whenever I use a deeper crimp, it can crack the jacket of plated or jacketed bullets. The hard part about consistent crimping is that the FCD crimps based on brass OAL not cartridge OAL. The best advice I can give you is to batch out your brass with very uniform OALs if you want the best most consistent taper crimps. Your bullets should definitely not just push in by hand(at least not easily). I once shot at lonestar and some guy didn't crimp a bunch of rounds and they wouldn't even chamber in his gun. Use the Lee FCD and you will never look back.

 

[Texas1911]

Try not loading powder or a primer into the case and just seating the bullet with a varied crimp. Do it in lots of 5 - 7 so you can test them. That way you really aren't losing out on materials.

 

[Bullseye Shooter]

I think we're missing an important point on loading the .45 ACP (or any cartridge for that matter). The first thing to look at is what any good reloading manual says is the correct diameter of a loaded cartridge per SAAMI specs. The reloading manuals show the diameter at the case mouth of a loaded .45 ACP to be .473. It is easy enough to check your loaded rounds with a mic and make sure you're within that specification. Any thing over .473 is going to cause problems and anything too much under that will potentially either deform the bullet (if using lead bullets) or bulge the case, i.e. roll crimping too much with a FMJ bullet.

Taper crimping with a taper crimp die or using a Lee factory crimp die is the easiest way to get the finished diameter close to .473. As I stated earlier, I taper crimp to .470 to .472 with lead bullets and have been doing so for over 30 years with no problems. I crimp FMJ bullets to .472. I am using a Star Machine Works press with a taper crimp die in the last station after all the other stages are completed.

Using a slight roll crimp will work if you do not have a taper crimp die as long as you don't overdo it. The .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth and to some extent on the extractor, so not only is the proper crimp important, but rim thickness as well. For Bullseye competition, I use the same cases throughout a match; mostly either WCC or Winchester brass since their rims are slightly thicker than some Remington and SB brass.

I should add that if you're crimping to .473 or thereabouts and still having a problem with loose bullets, it might be the thickness of the brass. Some Remington brass is pretty thin and I've stopped using it for that reason as well as the rim thickness. It's easy enough to check with a mic. The thin stuff was around a few years ago and I haven't run in to any lately so maybe Remington fixed the problem.

 

[texasjim]

While I am by no means an expert I have found that differences in brass thickness and bullet dia. calls for some tweaking of the crimp I use [taper crimp] and crimp to around 470 th's. the overall col. depends on the bullet you use I am currently casting a lee 230 gr. tc and if col is to short my ruger p345 will jam on the first bullet if loaded with 8 rounds evrytime on the first round only . Load 7 rounds and they will work fine. I had to tweak the bullet seating depth out a little and finally set my crimp to 469/470 and they work well with the mags loaded with 8 rounds a lot depends on the bullet , the brass you are using Nothing is set in stone but the overall crimp at the case mouth is very important I also test using the thumb/ finger sqeeze to make sure I have enough neck tension to prevent bullet settback once I got everything tweaked for that bullet I have no more trouble feeding /firing /and ejecting my cast rounds Jim

 

[Pistol Pete]

I started loading with Lee carbide resizing die. Sometimes the bullets were not tight enough even with a taper crimp applied. Thios was especially true in the case of Remington brass as well as some other brands. Fed. and late Win. brass must be thicker than Rem. Both hold bullets tighter than Rem.

That being said, RCBS dies take the brass to a smaller diameter and eliminated setback of the bullets. Then I got a 625 revolver and experienced bullets being pulled forward if Rem. brass was used and this was with cast .452 bullets. I now use Win. Brass in the revolver and taper crimp with a Redding taper crimp die set to put a pretty good crimp on them. I checked the rounds in my 1911 guns and they still head space correctly.

Don't depend on the extractor holding the base against the breech face, sooner are later you will get miss fires or worse.
I bought the RCBS dies before I bought the 625. I got tired of pulling the loose bullets.

 

[nolanwb]

I use a Dillon taper crip die on my .45's and have had no problems.... Then, I drop them into a Dillon .45 case gauge once in a while as a check....

 

[skinman]

Same. I do a light crimp.

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