Chamber a round... or not?

[texas_teacher]

Personally I have heard of it, but have never seen that. I wouldn't want one that was pinned.

It seems kind of pointless to me personally... Why would you need it pinned? When will you be firing your gun when it isn't going to be pressed? What are the circumstances that you'd need to fire a gun and not have your grip secured?

 

[Texas42]

It seems kind of pointless to me personally... Why would you need it pinned? When will you be firing your gun when it isn't going to be pressed? What are the circumstances that you'd need to fire a gun and not have your grip secured?

It is the same thing with people not buying new S&W because they have an internal lock (other than purely political). It might fail and you've got a paperweight when you need it. I agree than that isn't very rational considering S&W is a great company and they probably aren't going to sell revovlers have have a reasonable chance of failing from reasonable use.

Personally, I've had very little experience with grip safeties. I think if it was that big of a deal, I'd get a gun without one. I don't think that they are completely necessary for safe carry (what can I say, I love my Glock), but I wouldn't take it off my gun if I ever wonder into a 1911 or XD.

 

[texas_teacher]

It is the same thing with people not buying new S&W because they have an internal lock (other than purely political). It might fail and you've got a paperweight when you need it. I agree than that isn't very rational considering S&W is a great company and they probably aren't going to sell revovlers have have a reasonable chance of failing from reasonable use.

Personally, I've had very little experience with grip safeties. I think if it was that big of a deal, I'd get a gun without one. I don't think that they are completely necessary for safe carry (what can I say, I love my Glock), but I wouldn't take it off my gun if I ever wonder into a 1911 or XD.

Yeah it's there why remove it... I don't go looking for a car with airbags but if they're there I'm not going to take them out...

 

[chuckybrown]

100%, all day, every day.

 

[Seabear1500]

It seems kind of pointless to me personally... Why would you need it pinned? When will you be firing your gun when it isn't going to be pressed? What are the circumstances that you'd need to fire a gun and not have your grip secured?

I wasn't the one wanting one. I had the same questions.

 

[POPO1223]

As a police officer here in texas i carry a full size springer trp cocked and locked everyday. It was impounded in our training that the weapon needs to be at its most ready point of engaugement. I cant imagine carring out my daily duties knowing i would have to chamber a round in any situation. Trust me the bad guys are carring ready to go and they dang sure are not going to wait for you to chamber a round..thanks popo

 

[texas_teacher]

As a police officer here in texas i carry a full size springer trp cocked and locked everyday. It was impounded in our training that the weapon needs to be at its most ready point of engaugement. I cant imagine carring out my daily duties knowing i would have to chamber a round in any situation. Trust me the bad guys are carring ready to go and they dang sure are not going to wait for you to chamber a round..thanks popo

Haha hold on bro I need to get 'er ready...

 

[bikerbill]

As somebody famous (I think his name was Murphy) once said, anything that can happen will happen. Will it happen to you? will you be unable to rack the slide when you need that first round heading out as quickly as possible? I'm sure there might be a scenario where I wouldn't want a round in the chamber, just can't think of it. I always carry condition one; I'm not Quick Draw McGraw, and I want every advantage I can get if I need to pull my weapon and use it.

 

[txinvestigator]

I have a question for those who carry unchambered. It is not to convince you otherwise, just a concern for you;

When you go to the range and practice, do you practice every first shot from the unchambered position? If not, I hope you will consider doing so.

 

[Burt Gummer]

I have a question for those who carry unchambered. It is not to convince you otherwise, just a concern for you;

When you go to the range and practice, do you practice every first shot from the unchambered position? If not, I hope you will consider doing so.

Good question. If you have your gun set up that way, train that way.
If you carry empty in your car, practice your draw/chambering in the vehicle (unloaded of course).

 

[texas_teacher]

I have a question for those who carry unchambered. It is not to convince you otherwise, just a concern for you;

When you go to the range and practice, do you practice every first shot from the unchambered position? If not, I hope you will consider doing so.

Good question. If you have your gun set up that way, train that way.
If you carry empty in your car, practice your draw/chambering in the vehicle (unloaded of course).

These are definitely great considerations... I'm glad y'all brought it up for those who do choose to carry this way...

 

[F350-6]

1911, Condition One

 

[ROGER4314]

Once again, I find myself aligned with txinvestigator (which probably ticks him off). As always, he is right on the money!

There is absolutely no reason to carry a pistol without a round in the chamber. Even more, I think having a pistol with or without a chambered round an invitation for Murphy to bite you in the butt. For me, if it is loaded, it is always charged and ready to go. In fact, my carry pistols are kept in a small safe and I never unload them unless they are being maintained.

A point to ponder, please? In the 60's and 70's, I carried a 1911 Colt with a round chambered and on the safety notch for about two decades. I drew from a holster, potted small game regularly and hunted for years carrying the pistol in that condition. That Colt and I climbed fences, forded creeks, trudged through brush piles and brambles without a hitch. Now, I find that carrying that way will cause famine and pestilence in third world nations. Granted, in my older more enlightened years, points are awarded to the notion that carrying on the 1/2 cock is not the best but I see no reason to panic over it. In those days, the flow of information was poor (no Internet) and magazines cost a princely sum, so I learned as I went. I survived it all without a scratch, no AD's or accidents. What is the BFD?

Returning to the topic: Yes, my carry guns are always fully charged.

Flash

 

[Renegade]

There is absolutely no reason to carry a pistol without a round in the chamber

Sure there is. You and I many not agree with it, but there are plenty of reasons.

The most common one I am told, is it prevents an AD. This is true. I have never heard of a single case of a person who carries chamber empty having an AD. Another is folks with kids who may get a hold of the gun. Chamber empty adds one layer of protection to this scenario too. If you look at the thousands of defensive uses of a gun, you will see most do not require chamber loaded. Very few are quick-draw shootings. So the logic here is a a slight loss in responsiveness, for more protection against an accidental shooting. The fact is, not everyone who carries a gun is skilled at it. One only needs to go to a Texas Gun Show when an AD happens and wish more folks carried chamber empty. :-).

Everyone who carries makes tradeoffs. Chamber empty is a tradeoff. I usually carry a revolver, so my tradeoff is lower capacity. The benefit though is I almost always carry 100% of the time, something I did not do when I chose a larger S/A gun as my carry gun.

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

The most common one I am told, is it prevents an AD. This is true. I have never heard of a single case of a person who carries chamber empty having an AD.

That's absolutely incorrect. There's a perfect example on video at Shiloh of a guy chambering a round and shooting his support hand in the process. Of course, the guy had his finger on the trigger and grabbed the muzzle end of the slide, so he was doing everything wrong. I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of other examples as well.

Another is folks with kids who may get a hold of the gun. Chamber empty adds one layer of protection to this scenario too.

I'm pretty sure kids watch TV and have seen someone rack the slide before firing at least ONCE in their life. Now, the kid might not have the strength to do it, but that's another story.

If you look at the thousands of defensive uses of a gun, you will see most do not require chamber loaded.

That's because the weapon isn't fired in the vast majority of these encounters. You don't until you do.

Very few are quick-draw shootings.

Where are you getting your numbers? DOJ statistics tell us the average gun fight (if there is such a thing) takes place in low light, the parties are less than 10 feet apart and it's over in 2.8 seconds. That sounds pretty quick to me.

So the logic here is a a slight loss in responsiveness, for more protection against an accidental shooting. The fact is, not everyone who carries a gun is skilled at it.

And therein lies your problem. If a person wants to carry a gun, they should do the responsible thing and seek qualified training.

One only needs to go to a Texas Gun Show when an AD happens and wish more folks carried chamber empty. :-).

I'm not sure what the significance of a gun show is. Accidents happen, but they are very rare. Participants and attendees are usually forbidden from bringing in loaded guns anyway. But you're right, if my gun isn't loaded, it will not fire. That makes things safer for just about everyone... but me.

Everyone who carries makes tradeoffs. Chamber empty is a tradeoff. I usually carry a revolver, so my tradeoff is lower capacity. The benefit though is I almost always carry 100% of the time, something I did not do when I chose a larger S/A gun as my carry gun.

I firmly believe that with enough training and experience, most people understand how their weapons work and trust that they're not going to just "go off" without a fat finger on the trigger.

 

[Renegade]

FIRST, I am not defending it nor do I carry that way, but I understand the logic behind it and why they choose to do it.

That's absolutely incorrect. There's a perfect example on video at Shiloh of a guy chamber a round and shooting his support hand in the process. Of course, the guy had his finger on the trigger and grabbed the muzzle end of the slide, so he was doing everything wrong. I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of other examples as well.

That can happen to a chamber loaded person too.

I'm pretty sure kids watch TV and have seen someone rack the slide before firing at least ONCE in their life. Now, the kid might not have the strength to do it, but that's another story.

Exactly, having the strength to rack the slide is much hard than the strength to press the trigger Thus some measure of protection is afforded.

Where are you getting your numbers? DOJ statistics tell us the average gun fight (if there is such a thing) takes place in low light, the parties are less than 10 feet apart and it's over in 2.8 seconds. That sounds pretty quick to me.

30+ years of reading about defensive shootings. It is very rare that a quick-draw scenario happens. And the 2.8 second stat is for AFTER the shooting starts. Smith, Albrecht, Hale, McFadden, Smith, Fort Hood, VATech, Lubys, Columbine, McDonalds, etc. are all examples of defensive scenarios where there was plenty of time most folks to rack. I myself do not know of any TX/CHL shootings that were quick-draw, but I am sure there have been some.



And therein lies your problem. If a person wants to carry a gun, they should do the responsible thing and seek qualified training.

But that is not reality, and we have to live in reality. I am very happy a lot of folks carry chamber empty, I wish more would.


firmly believe that with enough training and experience, most people understand how their weapons work and trust that they're not going to just "go off" without a fat finger on the trigger.

I would bet 50% of the folks with CHL do not train once they get their CHL.

 

[deputy]

given time, i'm sure big brother will step in and require some sort of firearms safety class be required before purchase of a firearm........more or less its already in place for younger folks with hunter safety and for CHL...........wonder what big brother will instruct? chamber or empty chamber?

i'm not sure but is it california that already does this on all firearms purchases?

Anyways, back on the subject, could anyone please advise if it is standard procedure with the military to carry not chambered for their beretta?

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

FIRST, I am not defending it nor do I carry that way, but I understand the logic behind it and why they choose to do it.

That can happen to a chamber loaded person too.

Testing, testing... is this thing on? Of COURSE it can, but your point was it can't happen without a round chambered!

Exactly, having the strength to rack the slide is much hard than the strength to press the trigger Thus some measure of protection is afforded.

Maybe I'm just old fashion, but I believe keeping your guns away from your kids is a much better solution.

30+ years of reading about defensive shootings. It is very rare that a quick-draw scenario happens. And the 2.8 second stat is for AFTER the shooting starts. Smith, Albrecht, Hale, McFadden, Smith, Fort Hood, VATech, Lubys, Columbine, McDonalds, etc. are all examples of defensive scenarios where there was plenty of time most folks to rack. I myself do not know of any TX/CHL shootings that were quick-draw, but I am sure there have been some.

Ok. Let's say you're right on that one. Are you going to play the odds, hoping that YOUR defensive shooting situation falls into your majority?

But that is not reality, and we have to live in reality. I am very happy a lot of folks carry chamber empty, I wish more would.

That's not my problem. People who carry a gun and have not sought defensive handgun training are deluding themselves, and are a danger to themselves and others. Do it right, or don't do it at all.

I would bet 50% of the folks with CHL do not train once they get their CHL.

Again, you're wrong. That number is more like 99%. We are a fat, lazy, pop-culture society that has been conditioned to believe that the amazing shooting skills or flying roundhouse kicks we see on TV come naturally in high-stress situations.

 

[Renegade]

Testing, testing... is this thing on? Of COURSE it can, but your point was it can't happen without a round chambered!

Yes it is on, but you are not paying attention.

No, that was not the point. The point is if there is no round in the chamber, no round will go off if the trigger is pressed. I hear that from the chamber empty crowd all the time, and it is irrefutable.

Maybe I'm just old fashion, but I believe keeping your guns away from your kids is a much better solution.

Unfortunately that does not seem to happen.

Ok. Let's say you're right on that one. Are you going to play the odds, hoping that YOUR defensive shooting situation falls into your majority?

Yes. I play the odds every time.

As I said, I carry a 5 shot revolver, if more than 5 shots are needed quickly, I am in a world of hurt I am playing the odds I will not need more than 5 round everyone who carries plays the odds somehow.

That's not my problem. People who carry a gun and have not sought defensive handgun training are deluding themselves, and are a danger to themselves and others. Do it right, or don't do it at all.

More wishful thinking. As TXI is an instructor, I am sure he can recount numerous individuals who get CHLs and have no training whatsoever prior to the CHL class. My last renewal, the guy next to me shot my target. Unfortunately, not everyone is Delta Force trained.


I am curious why you care so much how other people carry? I do not care at all. Heck, 97.5% of Texans do NOT CARRY AT ALL. Does that bother you too?

 

[ROGER4314]

Every time I see statistical data quoted, I remember my class in statistics. The best thing I learned in the class was this: If a person has one foot in boiling water and the other foot in freezing water, statistically, on the average, he is comfortable.

That's the root of the problem in discussing self defense. Each incident is totally unique and statistics can't be applied. From my violent street experience which unfortunately is considerable, the SD event will likely take place in the dark, in confusing and distracting circumstances, on dirty, uneven surfaces with gravel, sand and broken glass spread around. Add a liberal dose of fear, auditory exclusion and tunnel vision, some flash blindness, variations in clothing worn, possible injury, pain and likely some alcohol consumption, how the heck can you train or anticipate your battle plan?

In a SD event, we are`making life/death decisions while peeing our pants. Afterwards, we armchair quarter back, place the events in neat little boxes and quantify the results in the light of day. Folks, this SD business is absolute chaos. It is unpredictable and each event is totally unique. You may have one second to make a life changing decision that will affect your freedom, financial status or lifespan. There's no way to compare apples and apples here.

So, instead of rationally and objectively planning your actions, get used to thinking while in a raging tornado, scared to death, blind, deaf and maybe injured. Then maybe we can get realistic about SD. For me, the loaded chamber removes one more obstacle to my ability to defend myself and buys a little time.

Flash