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  • leVieux

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    Mar 28, 2013
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    The Trans-Sabine
    <>

    Long, long ago, when I was young & slim, shotgun barrels were quite a bit longer than most of today. I can recall the usual duck& goose guns with 32’’ bbls being routine, with special ’’Long Tom’s’’ of 36’’ & 38’’.

    The common opinion of that era was that the longer the bbl, the more uniform the shot pattern, no matter the ‘’choke’’ it had. Those were the days of brass & waxed/oiled paper shells with pressed cardboard ‘’wads’’ & Lead shot. Business-end closures were either a flat heavy paper ‘’wad’’, or the then-newer ‘’star crimp’’.

    We dutifully ’’patterned’’ the guns with each new load, but never learned much useful.

    Then in the late 1960’s & early 1970’s, we saw a gradual swing to plastic shells wit sealed plastic star crimps. Many used plastic ‘’shot cups’’, which supposedly kept shot strings together better.

    Remington Arms ammo division did extensive testing using all sorts of shotgun bbls mounted to a machine at one of their non-domestic plants. The word I got was that any bbl length over about 18’’ had no appreciable effect on patterns on paper.

    Soon, we began seeing sporting shotguns with much shorter bbls for all wing-shooting hunting uses. Indeed, I had guns in 18.5, 24, & 26’’. Yes, the 18.5 was a hacksaw job on a damaged LC Smith; but the others were U S & German makes.

    Today, it seems that few sporting double guns are offered in shorter than 28’’. We hear babble about ‘’sighting 0lanes’’’ and ‘’smoother swings’’, as in golfing equipment.

    Has anyone here kept-up with this issue ?

    Please tell us what you know. . . . .


    <>
    Target Sports
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    Dec 15, 2019
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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    <>

    Long, long ago, when I was young & slim, shotgun barrels were quite a bit longer than most of today. I can recall the usual duck& goose guns with 32’’ bbls being routine, with special ’’Long Tom’s’’ of 36’’ & 38’’.

    The common opinion of that era was that the longer the bbl, the more uniform the shot pattern, no matter the ‘’choke’’ it had. Those were the days of brass & waxed/oiled paper shells with pressed cardboard ‘’wads’’ & Lead shot. Business-end closures were either a flat heavy paper ‘’wad’’, or the then-newer ‘’star crimp’’.

    We dutifully ’’patterned’’ the guns with each new load, but never learned much useful.

    Then in the late 1960’s & early 1970’s, we saw a gradual swing to plastic shells wit sealed plastic star crimps. Many used plastic ‘’shot cups’’, which supposedly kept shot strings together better.

    Remington Arms ammo division did extensive testing using all sorts of shotgun bbls mounted to a machine at one of their non-domestic plants. The word I got was that any bbl length over about 18’’ had no appreciable effect on patterns on paper.

    Soon, we began seeing sporting shotguns with much shorter bbls for all wing-shooting hunting uses. Indeed, I had guns in 18.5, 24, & 26’’. Yes, the 18.5 was a hacksaw job on a damaged LC Smith; but the others were U S & German makes.

    Today, it seems that few sporting double guns are offered in shorter than 28’’. We hear babble about ‘’sighting 0lanes’’’ and ‘’smoother swings’’, as in golfing equipment.

    Has anyone here kept-up with this issue ?

    Please tell us what you know. . . . .


    <>
    IT'S A NON-ISSUE NOTWORTHY OF TALKING ABOUT!
     

    single stack

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    The powder is done burning before the payload is 18” down the barrel. Setback has already occurred as has the crush at the forcing cone. All that’s left is the choke constriction. Barrel length is all about swing. 28” barrels are now losing favor to 30“ and 32” for skeet and sporting.
     

    leVieux

    TSRA/NRA Life Member
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    The Trans-Sabine
    Maybe this will help. Real world testing. Well, Matt Carriker world testing.


    <>

    Remington did their scientific experiments using standardized equipment, precise measurements, thousands of rounde in many loads, precise recoredkeeping, and with Engineers runninng the investigation.

    An acquaintance was invited down to observe. He said the detail was very impressive.

    leVieux

    <>
     

    Bozz10mm

    TGT Addict
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    Oct 5, 2013
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    Georgetown
    <>

    Remington did their scientific experiments using standardized equipment, precise measurements, thousands of rounde in many loads, precise recoredkeeping, and with Engineers runninng the investigation.

    An acquaintance was invited down to observe. He said the detail was very impressive.

    leVieux

    <>
    What were the results of that scientific experiment as far as barrel length affecting patterning? Pretty much the same as the video, yes?
     

    Havok1

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    I’m not a huge shotgun guy, so just going out on a limb, but maybe the use of chokes made it unnecessary?
     

    leVieux

    TSRA/NRA Life Member
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    The Trans-Sabine
    <>

    I’m not a huge shotgun guy, so just going out on a limb, but maybe the use of chokes made it unnecessary?

    <>

    No, ‘’chokes’’ have been with us for hundreds of years.

    The ‘’bbl length’’ issue has been source of many arguments for a long time.

    There is some truth to the ‘’swing’’ & ‘’sighting plane’’ concerns; but many have become 25’’ bbl fans, and discount that concern.

    Indeed, our rifle bbls have shortened, too; for very different reasons.

    <>
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    Dec 15, 2019
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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    <>



    <>

    No, ‘’chokes’’ have been with us for hundreds of years.

    The ‘’bbl length’’ issue has been source of many arguments for a long time.

    There is some truth to the ‘’swing’’ & ‘’sighting plane’’ concerns; but many have become 25’’ bbl fans, and discount that concern.

    Indeed, our rifle bbls have shortened, too; for very different reasons.

    <>
    CHOKE CONSTRICTION HAS MORE EFFECT ON PATERNING THAN BARREL LENGTH!
     

    Vaquero

    Moving stuff to the gas prices thread.....
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    Apr 4, 2011
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    Dixie Land
    CHOKE CONSTRICTION HAS MORE EFFECT ON PATERNING THAN BARREL LENGTH!
    And velocity at target distance.
    I believe a full choke will have a lower velocity at a given distance than a bore or modified.
    Modified being a somewhat variable due to manufacturers of fixed choke guns and the wide market of choke tubes. I consider improved cylinder to be in the same camp as modified.
    I think most shotgun barrels are too long for defense use.
    Hunting use requires a lighter weight and a different balance.
    I can't imagine wing shooting with an 18" bbl 12 ga O/U.
    "Unwieldy" comes to mind.
     

    leVieux

    TSRA/NRA Life Member
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    Mar 28, 2013
    7,071
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    The Trans-Sabine
    And velocity at target distance.
    I believe a full choke will have a lower velocity at a given distance than a bore or modified.
    Modified being a somewhat variable due to manufacturers of fixed choke guns and the wide market of choke tubes. I consider improved cylinder to be in the same camp as modified.
    I think most shotgun barrels are too long for defense use.
    Hunting use requires a lighter weight and a different balance.
    I can't imagine wing shooting with an 18" bbl 12 ga O/U.
    "Unwieldy" comes to mind.
    <>

    Actually, it was an old l C Smith SxS a Friend gave me. But, one year, shooting late afternoons over a stock tank just outside Orange Grove, it worked very well. The average shots were some 10 - 20 yards.

    <>
     
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