ATF-41P Final Rule

[Renegade]

Nope. You have to submit fingerprints done by the CLEO (or organization) along with a statement/form signed by them that they affirm the fingerprints are yours AND you don't have any disqualifiers from possessing a firearm (background check).

One per person on an individual, one per "responsible party" on a trust/corp.

Getting prints is not a CLEO Background Check. Last time I was there it was digital, clerk ran off 25 copies for me. Have not been back since.

 

[Renegade]

Trust was a better option than individual transfer. This is why the trust was so popular. And there is no CLEO requirement with a trust.

We have gained nothing.

Maybe for you it was better, but for the 40% of the folks who used individual, they would disagree. I have no kids, trust is of no use to me.

NO CLEO is a win, PERIOD.

 

[Mreed911]

Getting prints is not a CLEO Background Check. Last time I was there it was digital, clerk ran off 25 copies for me. Have not been back since.

FROM THE DAMNED DOCUMENT YOU APPARENTLY WON'T READ (Page 8):

In addition,§ 479.63 provides that the law enforcement certification located on Form 1 must be completed and signed by the local chief of police or county sheriff, the head of the State police, the State or local district attorney or prosecutor, or such other person whose certification may be acceptable to the Director.

The certifying official must state, inter alia, that the certifying official has no information indicating that possession of the firearm by the maker would be in violation of State or local law or that the maker will use the firearm for other than lawful purposes.

The certifying official must have jurisdiction over the area within which the maker resides.

The purpose of this requirement is to ensure that the official will have access to criminal records concerning the maker, and knowledge of the State and local laws governing the transfer, receipt, and possession of the firearm by the maker.

The same language is also woven into the language for individuals, responsible persons for trusts/corporations, and Form 4's.

They have to sign a form, 5320.23, that affirms they believe the fingerprints are yours and that they have no information that would prohibit you from possessing a firearm.

It's different from approving you for an NFA item, but it's still a CLEO signature requirement and a background check (which I'm sure they'll charge for and might delay for).

 

[Renegade]

FROM THE DAMNED DOCUMENT YOU APPARENTLY WON'T READ (Page 8):

.

Yo, that is the current system and/or proposal which they are doing away with.

RIF

 

[Mreed911]

Yo, that is the current system and/or proposal which they are doing away with.

RIF

Read the document.

The NEW requirements will be fingerprints, signed by the CLEO, that affirm you're not a prohibited person. This REPLACES the sign-off that they approve of your NFA item.

Someone else here will come along and confirm my reading, I'm sure.

 

[Renegade]

Read the document.

The NEW requirements will be fingerprints, signed by the CLEO, that affirm you're not a prohibited person. This REPLACES the sign-off that they approve of your NFA item.

Someone else here will come along and confirm my reading, I'm sure.

I give up.

Maybe you will figure it out in 6 months when your CLEO tells you to GTFO.

 

[Mreed911]

From another section in the document:

ATF did not propose to eliminate the CLEO certification requirement. Rather, ATF proposed extending the CLEO certification requirement to responsible persons of a trust or legal entity, but also proposed amending the language of the certification to omit the requirement that the certifying official state that the certifying official has no information that the applicant or transferee will use the firearm for other than lawful purposes.

 

[Renegade]

ATF did not propose to eliminate the CLEO certification requirement. Rather, ATF proposed extending the CLEO certification requirement to responsible persons of a trust or legal entity, but also proposed amending the language of the certification to omit the requirement that the certifying official state that the certifying official has no information that the applicant or transferee will use the firearm for other than lawful purposes.

All those proposals were not implemented.

I give up again.

No mas.

 

[Tejano Scott]

Tag


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Davetex]

sub

 

[ScorpionHunter]

FROM THE DAMNED DOCUMENT YOU APPARENTLY WON'T READ (Page 8):

As I understand, that's part of the background, ATF's description of the current state.

 

[locke_n_load]

Apparently, the ATF facebook page stated that CLEO signoff requirement for trusts and individuals are going away, replaced with notification. See page 32 of the ATF document.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Win for Individuals but PITA for those of us with trusts and child beneficiaries.

 

[locke_n_load]

Win for Individuals but PITA for those of us with trusts and child beneficiaries.

Exactly.
Probably putting 1 more item on trust just for the ease of use. After that, go individual route.
If registered to an individual, there is a free transfer to your offspring, correct?
EDIT: when you die...

 

[ScorpionHunter]

If you want to save some time, the final rule starts on page 209. The ATF provides a quick summary on page 214. You submit your form 1, 4 or 5, complete a 5320.23 and submit fingerprints and photo for each "responsible person", and the trust documents to the ATF.

As I understand, you mail all that to your CLEO, too. That's the notification.

Prince law has a preliminary analysis.

http://blog.princelaw.com/category/firearms-law/gun-trusts/

 

[grumper]

From what I'm reading the new form 5320.23 requires the CLEO to certify the responsible persons listed on the form match the fingerprints and photos submitted.

So basically they changed what needs to be certified but you still have to get a sign off. This deal stinks.

Edit: that could be for a preliminary version of the new form. I wish they would post the final version so we can see how bad this frakking thing is for ourselves.

 

[duckknot]

Sooooo I have 6 months to buy toys!? Good thing I start working next month

sent from: wait, where am I!?

 

[Bithabus]

Read the document.

The NEW requirements will be fingerprints, signed by the CLEO, that affirm you're not a prohibited person. This REPLACES the sign-off that they approve of your NFA item.

Someone else here will come along and confirm my reading, I'm sure.

You are not correct.

As Renegade said, CLEO notification ONLY will be required. The CLEO will not do a backround check. This is a good change.

The bad change is that trustees will now need to send prints to BATFE.

The Department has also reassessed the need for CLEO certification and is implementing a new
approach that focuses on notifying CLEOs. The final rule only requires that the applicant maker
or transferee, including each responsible person for a trust or legal entity, provide a notice to the
appropriate State or local official that an application is being submitted to ATF

 

[breakingcontact]

ELIMINATION of CLEO SIGNOFF is massive good.

I understand that point. I am biased and let that cloud my statement.

Win for Individuals but PITA for those of us with trusts and child beneficiaries.

This is accurate both of the changes and my understanding.

 

[RipGear]

No CLEO signature will be required according to the Final Rule. Please stop referencing the proposed documents.

CLEO notification is defined on page 224, and is discussed further on page 227-228:

https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download

Page 227: The new law enforcement notification requirement provides at least two important benefits. First, by changing the certification requirement to a notification requirement, the final rule reduces the burdens on individuals and entities who seek to possess firearms in jurisdictions whose chief law enforcement officers either process certifications slowly or refuse to process them at all.