AR Manufacturers

[texreb66]

Howdy all. I would like to ask for opinions on the different mfr's of Ar's these days. All i ever had any contact with were the colt M16A1 and M16A2 while serving in the Army. I recall Bushmaster was considered junk back in the 80's, but now I see so many different mfr's of them, I don't know what is good or bad. i see some of the prices in my range($600 to $800) but does that mean they are bad guns???
Could I ask for a list, maybe a 1 to 10(one being best, 10 being crap or bad or cheap, etc..) of these things?
Also, I remember the unit armorers telling me that you could not switch out the uppers and lowers without modifications. Yet, I see people selling one or the other on the different gun selling sites. Again, and advice would be most greatly appreciated.

Thank You
Dan

 

[smschulz]

too vague

Depends on the use/purpose/expectations.

 

[cuate]

Bushies were badmouthed mostly by Colt owners, you know, "My dog is bigger than your dog".....I have had a Bushie M4 for several years, shot much and often, even shot with Johnathan J. Anus .22 conversion...Kept clean and kept lubricated and no problems except it chunks fired brass "way out yonder".....Everybody and their dogs making AR uppers and lowers and the demand must be very high as the prices are still astronomical...Would I ever buy other brands ? If the price was right and I wanted another one or needed it....

 

[Texas42]

Pretty much, most of the uppers and lowers are interchangable. As I understand it, Colt made some lowers with different pin sizes. You can spend as much as you want on an upper.

 

[The_Hunter]

Pretty much, most of the uppers and lowers are interchangable. As I understand it, Colt made some lowers with different pin sizes. You can spend as much as you want on an upper.

The colt commercial lowers will not fit anything that is mill-spec. For some reason cold deiced to use smaller FCG pins and I think some of the older ones have a different size front pin.

Other then that as long as the parts are to spec you should be able to swap upper and lowers, and most other parts.

To really answer you first question we need more info. What is great for range use may suck for field use, and what may be great for the sandbox may be way over kill if you are just shooting at paper.

Hunter

 

[texreb66]

Guys, I didn't realize all of the different applications. I am sorry. i would think just for shooting targets, mostly, but a "just in case" also. I don't need it for home defense, and I certainly don't need all of the high speed, low drag spec ops stuff that i see now adays. I'm just looking at a regular old A1 or A2 style..preferably with a detachable carrying handle, aga, for "just in case". I read somewhere on a forum that Bushmaster mags don't fit aother AR's, so hat would be a concern of mine if true.
Does that help a bit more????

Thanks alot

 

[Charlie]

Dpms

 

[texreb66]

Thank you Charlie. Anything to look out for if I but a used one???

 

[Charlie]

As I don't own one I can't tell you what to look for. I've heard nothing negative about them and they can be had new for the $600 to $800 range. I've seen some "Sporticals" (DPMS model term) listed for around $650. I have shot one in .223 and also their .308 model and they both shot very well. Just my $.02 worth of experience with DPMS.

 

[dobarker]

If you know how to break them down, pull the bolt and check for any heavy or abnormal signs of wear. As well, with the bolt removed check the inside of the upper receiver for the same, there shouldn't be very much wear in the upper. Check the inside of the buffer tube for gouges or chips. And check the barrel to ensure that there's some life left in the rifling. While you have the bolt out as well, check the ejector and extractor, make sure they still function, ex. press on the ejector to make sure it pushes back, and pull on the extractor to make sure it pulls back.
A buddy of mine recently bought a used dpms that had a broken extractor on it. It's not a big deal to fix, but if you find it, it makes a good negotiating point.

And last but not least, check the wobble factor on the upper to lower receiver mating. Basically grab the upper in one hand and the lower in the other when both retaining pins are in place and wobble lightly left to right. If there's a lot of play, that's no good. But a little wobble can be expected, and by little, I mean just noticeable.

DPMS is a great brand for plinking, or a base to build up better.

 

[The_Hunter]

Dan what features are you looking for? You said an A1 or A2, does that mean you want a 20inch rifle length, or would you be more interested in something that more of a carbine. Really you could put together a nice rifle for the upper end of your budget. I know I am asking a lot of questions but the AR platform has almost endless possibilities

Where did you get the info that the bushy wouldn't take normal mags?

Hunter

 

[Davetex]

I just found this today. Very informative for a potential AR buyer.

M4 CHART

Hope that helps.

 

[M. Sage]

Only ones I've seen trouble with are Olympic Arms, Bushmaster and Model 1 Sales. Bushmaster and Model 1 I've seen bolts snap, Olympic... well, let's just say their lowers aren't always "to spec", which can cause issues.

For the most part, the lower doesn't matter so long as it's mil-spec. I've got an R-Guns lower (very cheap) that works flawlessly and I've heard no complaints about them. Yes, a $55 lower can be every bit as good as a Colt. The upper is where quality gets to be more important. It gets kind of complicated with bullet weight vs rifling twist, but it's hard to go wrong with a 1/8 twist barrel. It should shoot accurately with most loads. IMO it's a decent "middle of the road" twist. 1/9 is good, too.

You won't need a chrome-lined barrel, but it's nice to have. IMO, "building" your own is the way to go. (You don't really "build" an AR, you just assemble it. ). You can save some money here and there and still wind up with a high-quality piece.

I just found this today. Very informative for a potential AR buyer.

M4 CHART

Hope that helps.

That chart might be out of date. The gas key screws on my DPMS AR upper were staked, so were the ones in my friend's LR-308. IMO DPMS is right in the "sweet spot" of quality vs price. IMO Colt is horribly over-priced. You're paying them for a name.

 

[dobarker]

Just to add more blunt force to the topic of building. If you decided to go that route, there are plenty of fellows on this forum who have built/build ar rifles that will help you along the way. Just get an idea of what you want and start pricing it out. Midwayusa, Brownells and Gunbroker are all good places to get parts.

 

[texreb66]

Thank you all very much. You all are TOP NOTCH!!! I'm sure like most old soldiers(and i was Airborne Infantry in the 80's) I pretty much "slept" with my M16A1. But, I feel so lost these days. Ya'll blow me away with all of this new AR speak. LOL. I just didn't know there were so many options, etc.... I figured it was all black and white.
Hunter, I would prefer a carbine, but it's really whatever I can find that I can afford. I truly disliked the A2, so I would rather stay away from that style. But like you said, if I can build on what I have, then it doesn't matter what I start with. It just seems that all i see are these flattops, and it appears to me you have to be able to afford some sort of sights to go shoot it. i was ok with the old iron sights, although me eyes ain't what they used to be. but, the spectacles help in that area.
I do believe that the info I read on the Bushmaster's not accepting mil-spec mags, was on TexasGunTrader.com.....of course, I believe some seller had said that on his ad. And who am I to disbelieve him, as he is the owner and I am a wannabe owner. Tell me George washington was your great grandpa, and I'll believe it(well, mostly).
I do thank each and every one of you for your time, But a little more thanks to Hunter, Do and Sage.........you guys hit the nail........on my head..
Top notch people, I say.

Thank you all
Dan

 

[texreb66]

Hey M. Sage, i thought all AR barrels were chrome lined? What does the chrome lining do or not do???? If they aren't, is the biggest concern on cleaning then? I guess rust would be the biggest hinderance?

Thank you again
Dan

 

[300LW]

Direct gas: Colt or BCM for a tactical gun, Noveske for a precision rifle.
Piston: LWRCI

Anything else is substandard. Buy the best and cry once.
Just my opinion, though.

 

[M. Sage]

Hey M. Sage, i thought all AR barrels were chrome lined? What does the chrome lining do or not do???? If they aren't, is the biggest concern on cleaning then? I guess rust would be the biggest hinderance?

Thank you again
Dan

Chrome is very hard and isn't as porous as steel. It lasts longer, is a little easier to clean (in my opinion) and won't rust. Downsides are that it costs extra, that rust isn't really a big problem with ARs (our military doesn't use corrosive primers like they used to back in old days) and on some rifles like carbines, the barrel is going to wear out at the gas port instead of in the bore anyway. The biggest downside for some is that it's impossible to get a "perfect" chrome coat into a barrel. There will always be high and low spots, meaning it probably won't have the same potential accuracy of an unlined barrel. There are some other treatments out there that do more or less the same thing just in different ways, but I don't know that much about them.

Not all are lined. You've basically got three types - lined barrels, unlined steel barrels and stainless barrels. Stainless is usually used in target or "varmint" (AKA sniper) configurations.

The AR-15 is the most versatile small arms platform on the planet. Pop two pins and change your magazine and you can go from good old 5.56mm to .22 long rifle to a crossbow to single-shot .50 BMG to pistol calibers like 9mm and .45. I've even heard someone makes an air rifle upper... Barrel lengths can go from 8" and right on up from there. Don't even get me started on stocks, grips and handguards! Those three items alone can give you almost infinite possible combinations.

If you like the A1 style rifles, go for it. I love them for their light weight and shorter length of pull (I like a short stock). The A2 is a solid improvement (and the A4 is even better because you can add glass), but the A1 still has its place for me.

They're kind of like Lay's potato chips. You can't just have one. I just finished my first one about a month ago (A2 style) and already want to build a carbine... and still lust for an A1.

 

[dobarker]

They're kind of like Lay's potato chips. You can't just have one. I just finished my first one about a month ago (A2 style) and already want to build a carbine... and still lust for an A1.

That's no joke at all. I just finished building my carbine and am already trying to figure out what configuration I want to put together next.

 

[The_Hunter]

Hey M. Sage, i thought all AR barrels were chrome lined? What does the chrome lining do or not do???? If they aren't, is the biggest concern on cleaning then? I guess rust would be the biggest hinderance?

Thank you again
Dan

The Chrome lined barrels will be easier to clean, and should last longer... but as just a target rifle you will most likley never fire the number of rounds it will take to shoot one out. If you do then you are a lucky lucky man. :-)

So to answer you original question on what I think you should buy :-)

Lower of your choice: 100-120 (stag, JD machine, Ect) I would go with something you can buy local
DPMS LPK + Milspec stock kit and magpull MOE stock 150
BCM 16inch carbine upper with bolt and charger handle 385+130
Std front hand guard 20
rear site 50+

That would be a bad-ass rifle for just a tick over your stated budget of 800 but would be a lot better then anything else that is commercially available in your price range. If you were closer to Houston I would be more then happy to put it together for you as well. I have build almost 75 but I always enjoy getting to put my tools to work :-)