A Message to the Church of Bill of Sale

[AustinN4]

If one doesn't like selling or buying anonymously, they should go to an FFL and have it all recorded.

It really is that simple.

 

[sharkey]

Well, since you ask...... look up John Shipley. Want to take a guess on how they were only able to convict him on one count?

Nah, not gonna look him up. Never heard of him and don't know what you are talking about. It'd just be easier if we had a conversation here. I usually don't answer someone's question - go look something up.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Nah, not gonna look him up. Never heard of him and don't know what you are talking about. It'd just be easier if we had a conversation here. I usually don't answer someone's question - go look something up.

FBI agent convicted of illegally dealing in firearms. Did a private sale with a local deputy who then resold it to someone else who trafficked it to Mexico.

The FBI statement:

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/elpaso/press-releases/2010/ep082410.htm

 

[Renegade]

FBI agent convicted of illegally dealing in firearms. Did a private sale with a local deputy who then resold it to someone else who trafficked it to Mexico.

Classic case of how his records were used against him.

 

[Hoji]

Nah, not gonna look him up. Never heard of him and don't know what you are talking about. It'd just be easier if we had a conversation here. I usually don't answer someone's question - go look something up.

Well as I believe you did say you were a police officer I would think that you would have heard of him.

 

[Shady]

after the 10,000 rehashing of this topic I have still yet to see where having a bill of sale actually helped someone.

and as posted just above we have definite proof they can screw you over royally

 

[majormadmax]

We like trigger words. "Church of" "Afraid of"
If you were to go into a store and didn't like how they lawfully sold an item, you would just go somewhere else.

Me, I want a record of the transaction in case that firearm is used improperly. Besides, most of you'll lost your guns in the boating accident. We like playing hypotheticals here so how about this - a gun you sold is used in a horrific crime and the only lead is the gun left at the scene. If the Inv. Came and asked, wouldn't you like to be helpful or is your freedom to valuable to assist them (triggered)? I am not saying you would be held liable......in TX anyway.

So do you have the same paranoia with every other inanimate object you sell? Since you like hypotheticals, here are a few of my own...what if you sold a car and it ran over a bunch of orphans? You put a chainsaw on Craigslist and the person who buys it uses it to chop up a bunch of nuns, do you feel responsible for that?

You have absolutely no liability whatsoever as long as the transaction was accomplished in accordance with Texas and Federal law. Your "record" is useless as are most bills of sale. A person could easily create either, but they are no evidence that would be admissible in a court of law.

As for investigators wanting the information, I would cooperate the best I could but I feel my first obligation is to protect the rights of the individual the same as they have to. Go look up what PII is, and the consequences for improperly handling it. That is a greater responsibility that should not be voluntarily entered into unless absolutely necessary, in which case it isn't.

That is why I refuse to provide such information unless it is required by law, and for private gun sales in Texas it isn't. It's that clear and simple.

 

[majormadmax]

Nah, not gonna look him up. Never heard of him and don't know what you are talking about. It'd just be easier if we had a conversation here. I usually don't answer someone's question - go look something up.

Nice way to avoid facts pertinent to the discussion! I guess if you want to keep your opinions and bury your head in the sand when others provide evidence to contradict them, it's a waste of time trying to educate you. But for others who actually who actually are seeking information to make an informed decision on the matter, you can learn more about Shipley's case here...

https://www.ammoland.com/2012/08/the-strange-case-of-fbi-agent-john-shipley/#axzz5fPoXUIp1

There's even greater details on his website...

http://www.freejohnshipley.com

 

[sharkey]

Well as I believe you did say you were a police officer I would think that you would have heard of him.

Nope, never have. Actually, I think I do remember it, but it was a story that went in pne ear and quickly forgotten. So you are making the comparison with a criminal? You could have just explained it like someone else did here.

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[sharkey]

So do you have the same paranoia with every other inanimate object you sell? Since you like hypotheticals, here are a few of my own...what if you sold a car and it ran over a bunch of orphans? You put a chainsaw on Craigslist and the person who buys it uses it to chop up a bunch of nuns, do you feel responsible for that?

You have absolutely no liability whatsoever as long as the transaction was accomplished in accordance with Texas and Federal law. Your "record" is useless as are most bills of sale. A person could easily create either, but they are no evidence that would be admissible in a court of law.

As for investigators wanting the information, I would cooperate the best I could but I feel my first obligation is to protect the rights of the individual the same as they have to. Go look up what PII is, and the consequences for improperly handling it. That is a greater responsibility that should not be voluntarily entered into unless absolutely necessary, in which case it isn't.

That is why I refuse to provide such information unless it is required by law, and for private gun sales in Texas it isn't. It's that clear and simple.

Psst, paranoia is a trigger word. I have never lost sleep over any gun I sold. Way to start a conversation. I never said you would be liable.........again in TX anyway.

I just like to know who I am selling a firearm too and the reality is, it WOULD be more helpful in an investigation IF that were to occur. Personally I am not a big fan of hypotheticals but TGT likes to use them A LOT.

You guys should probably stop buying new guns and filling out those forms. You whine about what a lawful citizen asks for in a transaction but happily give $200 and fill out more govt. Forms for a suppressor? That is rich.

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[Hoji]

Nope, never have. Actually, I think I do remember it, but it was a story that went in pne ear and quickly forgotten. So you are making the comparison with a criminal? You could have just explained it like someone else did here.

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Your TBL is showing.

 

[avvidclif]

I always photograph a DL or LTC. Don't like it, don't buy a gun from me. I dont care when someone asks for it from me.

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Note to self: Don't buy from Sharkey

 

[majormadmax]

Note to self: Don't buy from Sharkey

Better yet, sell one to him so you can steal his identity!

 

[sharkey]

Your TBL is showing.

I checked my zipper is up. Have no idea what that is.

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[sharkey]

Note to self: Don't buy from Sharkey

Yep, don't buy from me. We had this conversation on a cycle forum too but the last guy I sold too was a stranger off that site. He had no issue and got a great deal.


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[Hoji]

I checked my zipper is up. Have no idea what that is.

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_______

 

[sharkey]

Better yet, sell one to him so you can steal his identity!

Pfft, that won't work. You'll dont ask for ID. You don't know me.

If I cared, I'd look up TBL and Shipley but I don't. That does not grind my gears enough.

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[sharkey]

_______

So how does agreeing with what other citizens are asking for make it LE related? Again, some just disagree with you.
As someone else said, do not buy from me. Just come here and whine (trigger word) about what others are asking for.
Have had my identity stolen twice but it wasnt because someone asked to see my DL or LTC.

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[Hoji]

So how does agreeing with what other citizens are asking for make it LE related? Again, some just disagree with you.
As someone else said, do not buy from me. Just come here and whine (trigger word) about what others are asking for.
Have had my identity stolen twice but it wasnt because someone asked to see my DL or LTC.

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You seem.....

 

[majormadmax]

Have had my identity stolen twice but it wasnt because someone asked to see my DL or LTC.

Yet you still want other's PII even though you have absolutely no legal reason to have it. **** that!