Who’s Correct?

[Big Green]

 

[benenglish]

If people want to argue over which target to use for new shooters, a pox on both their houses. It's just not a big deal. Use whatever works.

My personal opinion:

• Brand new shooters with handguns who are aiming ultimately at defensive use should be started on large, close, blank targets.
• After basic familiarization is accomplished and the student turns their attention to getting an LTC, use the B27.
• Beyond that, use a variety of targets designed to address particular goals.

 

[easy rider]

Aim small, miss small. If you are training to just hit a big target your chances of missing are greater. Something with a bullseye is much better to train aiming for, then when it's time to test, the chances of failing are lessened. The idea of center mass is to aim for the center.

 

[benenglish]

The idea of center mass is to aim for the center.

Correct.

I don't know how many people I've taught to aim for the center using the blank back side of a large, square bullseye target...then turned the target around to show them that most or all their shots were in the black.

For novices, a bullseye is a distraction.

For advanced shooters, the best scores on a bullseye target are achieved with a sub-six hold, a technique with absolutely zero utility for self defense situations.

 

[easy rider]

Correct.

I don't know how many people I've taught to aim for the center using the blank back side of a large, square bullseye target...then turned the target around to show them that most or all their shots were in the black.

For novices, a bullseye is a distraction.

For advanced shooters, the best scores on a bullseye target are achieved with a sub-six hold, a technique with absolutely zero utility for self defense situations.

I'm just saying to give a point to aim at. I wish I could hit the bullseye every time, but it's still satisfying if I come close. If you are just trying to hit within a big square, circle or oval without thinking of hitting center, chances of missing are heightened.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Ok, I’m going to rant for a moment here. In Texas, the LTC “instructor” is merely a proctor for the shooting portion in my opinion. I’ve never shot for LTC qual thanks to .mil quals, but I don’t think the LTC course has a practice round of shooting before the 50 rounds of qual.

Having said all that, seems more of a dick measuring contest going on than anything else.

 

[TexasRedneck]

I've always held that you should practice what you'll be tested on. The idea behind the range qualifications is can you hit the target with a certain degree of proficiency, not to make everyone a sharpshooter.

 

[benenglish]

I don’t think the LTC course has a practice round of shooting before the 50 rounds of qual.

I've been in several LTC classes where folks who failed the shooting portion were allowed a re-shoot. That's not officially a practice run but in practice it turns out to be.

To folks with more experience than me - Do LTC classes rarely/routinely/always allow a second chance on the shooting test?

 

[benenglish]

Having said all that, seems more of a dick measuring contest going on than anything else.

You mean between Templar Defense, Kenneth Craig, and Craig Summers? Yeah, you're definitely right about that.

 

[easy rider]

I've been in several LTC classes where folks who failed the shooting portion were allowed a re-shoot. That's not officially a practice run but in practice it turns out to be.

To folks with more experience than me - Do LTC classes rarely/routinely/always allow a second chance on the shooting test?

I took my Texas LTC qualification in 2015. We were told if we didn't pass, after a certain amount of time (can't remember rightly how long), we can take it again. I had practiced on my own before hand, and certainly scored higher when I wasn't under pressure, but I still passed well above what was needed.

 

[zackmars]

I've been in several LTC classes where folks who failed the shooting portion were allowed a re-shoot. That's not officially a practice run but in practice it turns out to be.

To folks with more experience than me - Do LTC classes rarely/routinely/always allow a second chance on the shooting test?

The only people I've seen not pass first try were ejected due to being safety hazards

 

[Havok1]

i don’t see why anyone would care what target an instructor chooses to use for their own class.

 

[TexasRedneck]

i don’t see why anyone would care what target an instructor chooses to use for their own class.

That's certainly true. However, I can see validity in having them shoot the same target they'll be shooting to qualify. Remember - this isn't a shooting course - it's a course designed to qualify you to pass the exam, written and practical.

 

[MTA]

View attachment 334103

Lol its just the ltc course. Ray charles could pass the qual shoot. These tactiqueer ultra instructors are so over the top with everything.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I've always held that you should practice what you'll be tested on. The idea behind the range qualifications is can you hit the target with a certain degree of proficiency, not to make everyone a sharpshooter.

Exactly.

"Meets standards"


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[glenbo]

Lol its just the ltc course. Ray charles could pass the qual shoot. These tactiqueer ultra instructors are so over the top with everything.

When my best friend and I went to take the course and qualify, we laughed so hard we almost fell down. We could have thrown empty beer cans and hit the targets enough to qualify.

 

[benenglish]

The only people I've seen not pass first try were ejected due to being safety hazards

The very first time I took the test, back in the 1990s, there was a lady with a cheap revolver who failed. I lent her a Glock and got the range to give me a little dry-fire space so I could work with her. After 10 minutes of basic instruction and some dry-fire, she passed just fine on the second try.

That was back when the license was a new thing and some people didn't know what to expect. IIRC, about a half dozen failed on the first try. Only one failed on the second and couldn't complete his paperwork that day.

 

[zackmars]

The very first time I took the test, back in the 1990s, there was a lady with a cheap revolver who failed. I lent her a Glock and got the range to give me a little dry-fire space so I could work with her. After 10 minutes of basic instruction and some dry-fire, she passed just fine on the second try.

That was back when the license was a new thing and some people didn't know what to expect. IIRC, about a half dozen failed on the first try. Only one failed on the second and couldn't complete his paperwork that day.

I do recall now one lady took the class, got to the shooting part, was given the string commands, then immediately drilled her target 3X in the head.


She then had a breakdown. Apparently her husband had killed himself and she at some point decided to get back into guns with an LTC class.

She didn't complete the class, was offered a retry but didn't take it.


She had a real good split time.

 

[Havok1]

That's certainly true. However, I can see validity in having them shoot the same target they'll be shooting to qualify. Remember - this isn't a shooting course - it's a course designed to qualify you to pass the exam, written and practical.

if he is offering his own training curriculum and chooses to use a different one then I just don’t see what difference it would make. People will either be able to hit what they aim at or they won’t.

Has anyone seen someone fail the LTC shoot, then immediately hang up a different type of target and suddenly shoot well?

 

[easy rider]

One gal failed out of about a dozen of us, I don't think she had ever held a gun before. While several tried to help her, I believe she finally gave up. As I said before, we were told beforehand that if we failed there was a time period before we could try again. I can't remember how many weeks or months. Only B-27 targets were used.