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What are the group's thoughts on the "AFT" arresting a YouTuber because he was sponsored by the AutoKeyCard company?

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  • PracticalCarry

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    The YouTube channel CRS Firearms, and Matt, the guy that does it has always been a bit gringey but sometimes amusing anyhow. So the story, as I understand it is that when the Florida company produced the AutoKeyCard, a novelty business card size of metal with the image of a SWD Lightning Link engraved on the metal (not pre-cut but laser engraved on the surface), the ATF determined that it was a "machine gun". I believe they were leaning on the wording in 26 U.S. Code § 5845 (b) which states: (b)Machinegun
    The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.


    At any rate, the company making it sponsored the YouTube channel and that channel (CRS) showed it and was compensated. Then, when the "AFT" shut down the company, the YouTuber did a GoFundMe for the owner of that company whom had become a friend to help with his defense expenses because he believed he was innocent and that if we don't fight the overreach then the next time one of us buys a dummy grenade paperweight, prints a picture of an illegal item, draws the picture of a DIAS or Link on a piece of paper, then we would, by precedent, be committing a felony according that broad interpretation. Seems that now, just a visual representation of something illegal is being called illegal. I mean, I would not have bought one because I don't like lawyers that much but the precedent seems a bit scary. So the YouTuber is being charged with "Conspiracy" because of the GoFundMe and with "Sponsorship" or something like that for taking money from and allegedly promoting an illegal item for money.

    Aside from the CRS guy being a bit of a doof, I see an interesting Court case here for sure. The precedent will be chilling if they are able to make the "illustration = real" and subject to prosecution.
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    ZX9RCAM

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    While waiting for replies, view this thread you already started...

     

    PracticalCarry

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    While waiting for replies, view this thread you already started...

    While I appreciate you help - the topics are different. I own an actual link, legally. The topic of my post was the lagal aspect of an image of a thing being interpreted as that thing and then the subsequent prosecution of a third party... But again, thanks.
     

    BRD@66

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    Not an exact fit here,but seems (to me) to be apropos.
    "..If we had 'Mann Act Police', vacationing couples would experience the kind of harassment that gun dealers and collectors have experienced. There would be marriage license checks at state borders. That's because if a bureaucrat has only one law to enforce, survival of his agency demands finding someone who may be violating it... -Neal Knox on Sen. A. Specter's wondering whether BATF should be abolished, Am. Rifleman 3/96
     

    Tnhawk

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    How long will it take atf to obtain a list of those who purchased from CRS Firearms and knock on their doors?
     
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    PracticalCarry

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    How long will it take atf to obtain a list of those who purchased from CRS Firearms and knock on their doors?
    I'm not even sure he sold them but clearly if he did, those folks will find out how long it takes to pull shipping/sales records and all those bold Facebook comments about "come and take it" - and they likely will...
     

    Lost Spurs

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    These kids on YouTube fail to realize that if you poke the bear, he may bite. I have watched CRS in videos before. While I disagree that a printed picture of a lightning link is a machine gun, CRS firearms kept the story alive. He raised money for the keycard designer and highlighted the hypocrisy of the ATF.

    All in the gun culture should be aware of this story.



    This may well end up as a case of "you may beat the charges, but you can't beat the ride"

    All it takes is one felony to stick, and gun rights are gone. This guy operated an FFL out of a thrift store him and his wife run in small town Wisconsin. I am curious to see how it ends.


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    PracticalCarry

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    These kids on YouTube fail to realize that if you poke the bear, he may bite. I have watched CRS in videos before. While I disagree that a printed picture of a lightning link is a machine gun, CRS firearms kept the story alive. He raised money for the keycard designer and highlighted the hypocrisy of the ATF.

    All in the gun culture should be aware of this story.



    This may well end up as a case of "you may beat the charges, but you can't beat the ride"

    All it takes is one felony to stick, and gun rights are gone. This guy operated an FFL out of a thrift store him and his wife run in small town Wisconsin. I am curious to see how it ends.


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    yea, thanks, good thoughts. Yea, that article is the start of this. And he certainly did poke the bear. That said, if nobody pushes back, who knows where it will end...
     

    Younggun

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    These kids on YouTube fail to realize that if you poke the bear, he may bite. I have watched CRS in videos before. While I disagree that a printed picture of a lightning link is a machine gun, CRS firearms kept the story alive. He raised money for the keycard designer and highlighted the hypocrisy of the ATF.

    All in the gun culture should be aware of this story.



    This may well end up as a case of "you may beat the charges, but you can't beat the ride"

    All it takes is one felony to stick, and gun rights are gone. This guy operated an FFL out of a thrift store him and his wife run in small town Wisconsin. I am curious to see how it ends.


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    Seems in this case it was less about “poking a bear”.

    Poking a bear implies the bear is minding its own business. The bear in this story is going around attacking people who were minding theirs.


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    Younggun

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    My pockets aren't deep enough for a long painful legal battle..........


    You can stand on principal only as long as you can afford to............

    And the alternative?


    I guess it comes down to whether the cost of trampled rights is higher than the court fees. Then again, once the rights are good and trampled we will all be facing conviction regardless. You’ll never keep your head low enough to avoid it.


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    Younggun

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    I guess the problem is that we are mostly cowards and don’t really take a stand. So when someone does it’s easy to single them out.

    Then we bravely poke our heads out and say “pah, what a fool he was. His rights will be gone for sure now” before crawling back in to a hole to pretend we aren’t going to have the same end. Either by eventually crossing some invisible line, or the simple slow erasure of freedom.


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    outdare

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    Is there a legal fund setup? We can at least help financially.

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    Texasjack

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    You act like we live in a democracy! Like that old rag titled "Constitution..." is still relevant! Take a quick look at the Marxists running Washington (and many states and cities) and tell me you think they respect any of that.

    At it's very best, the ATF is a government bureaucracy and that alone is good reason to go as far out of your way as you can to avoid having contact or being on any part of their radar. Remember that weird little group living out on the prairie near Waco back in 1993? Remember what happened when their leader dared to tell an undercover agent, "We're not afraid of the ATF."? Between eradicating that group (and their children), and then all the hearings that were held to make sure only dead people were at fault for anything that went badly, the government spent somewhere between $150 to $300 million to make sure everybody knows what happens to their enemies. (Nobody knows the exact amount, since funds were pulled from the DOD budget for at least part of the raid.)

    We can pound our chests and say, "We the People won't let them take over!" and such, but the reality is that they aren't going after all of us at once. Instead they'll go after individuals, bankrupting and destroying them as examples to the rest of us. If you're a bureaucrat in that sort of organization, you want to impress your bosses, so you find ways to twist the law, or you see how many Jews you can fit into a cattle car, or how quickly you can nail a few troublemakers to a public cross.

    Some of you may not like that analogy, but at least I'm still able to say it on here. It would get me shut down on Facebook or Twitter or YouTube. Do you see anybody in this Administration standing up for free speech? No. If they won't stand up for the 1st Amendment, you can be assured they won't support the 2nd, or any other law that they don't like.

    Keep your head down, keep your powder dry, and continue to cling to your guns and Bibles.
     

    SickSilverado

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    Am I on the right track by saying..."a drawing/illustration of an M16 on a metal business card is now illegal"? From what i can understand, a trigger is a machine gun, a bumpstock is a machine gun, a shoestring at times is a machine gun, a "lightning link" is a machine gun, a drawing of a lightning link is a machine gun. My next business card was going to be aluminum and have an etching of a M16 on it. If cut out, you'd have an all aluminum [2 dimensional] M16, which is a machine gun? Eventhough it clearly can't fire a round, it is still an iteration of illegal parts? Just the drawing of/knowledge of/intention of something is enough to make it something it clearly is not? CRS is in trouble over a picture of a part that could just as easily be cut out of my metal dust pan or my steel front door, or my BBQ grill lid(with or without the drawing).
     
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