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Went to "A Place to Shoot" today

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  • ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    I don't get the first chart. The chart above is very accurate though. Learn to control your trigger finger, learn not to flinch, and focus on the front sight. At this point you can shoot. If the gun doesn't group in the center, change the sights. If you can't do those three things well don't worry about finger placement etc.


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    I'm pretty sure that most would suggest having somebody else shoot it, before changing the sights, though.
    Texas SOT
     

    xdmikey

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    I had this issue with the SA operator I just sold. It was very accurate when rested but I always shot low. I had a guy I used to take shooting with me shoot it and he could hit with it but I was low.
    i needed cash so off it went.
     

    Fragman

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    Went to "A Place to Shoot" today

    As you are a lefty, you're basically mirroring the 'low and left' that is probably the most commonly reported issue for right handed shooters.

    Just yesterday at the range, shooters on both sides of me were getting low left with new glocks. I have owned 7 glocks. Everyone shot dead on right out the box.

    The issue with the chart is that it implies that there is a single factor causing issue, which is rarely the case.

    In my experience, low left (for a righty) comes from a combo of trigger jerking and a tendency to push the gun as its being fired.

    Also may not show up in dry firing as it is often related to recoil anticipation.

    You could also have someone load a magazine for you with a dummy round/snap cap in it.


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    TX69

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    4565176e404fa54124310c4dfd832e9c.jpg

    This helped me . I'm usually shooting at 2oclock. Considering we both shoot the same gun sd9ve and we're both left handed I would say it's an operator problem

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    I use that example quite often as I still catch myself making mistakes even after all of these years of shooting.
     

    t-astragal

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    The chart is wrong because flinching is not a consistent action. All zones on the chart are results of poor shooting technique not causes of poor results.

    Focus on front sight and get the trigger to break without mis aligning the sights and the gun will group within its precision range and your wobble range. Sight alignment and trigger control are way more important than sight picture (sights relative to target) at pistol ranges. Grip, trigger finger placement, etc only make a good shooter somewhat better.

    The chart seems to offer a solution to problems without really addressing the real issue. Now maybe the chart is meant to move 10 ring shots to the X ring, at that point it might mean something. Otherwise I say flinching is too random


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    benenglish

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    Now maybe the chart is meant to move 10 ring shots to the X ring, at that point it might mean something.
    Not even close. Brian Zins likes to hold that chart up in his class and have a good laugh over it, quickly covering why it's crap, before he wads it up and throws it away.

    Flinching is random. Having no concept of a wobble zone and thus trying to make the gun go off while the sights are pointed at the middle of the target also produces random hits everywhere except where you want them.

    As for technique, there's right and wrong for every sport. Some action shooters, in super-slo-mo video, slap the trigger so ridiculously it's a wonder they hit anything. Yet while I can see that "error" happening, it's still the case that they'll all be better shots than me when they're 100 years old. (Having my ass handed to me on the pistol line by a 94-year-old, which I have done, is a pretty humbling experience.)

    But back to my point - all techniques can be right or wrong, depending. That chart makes all sorts of unwarranted assumptions. For example, it shows low shots as being due to drooping the head, breaking the wrist down, or pushing forward. Show me a high-end speed shooter who doesn't push forward. And if you're not on the high end, any of those three errors is likely to produce a shot that goes somewhere else on the target as your brain tries, at the last micro-second, to correct the sight alignment errors it observes.

    Another point? It shows errors due to grabbing too little or too much trigger. That's ridiculous. Without knowing if it's an auto or a DA revolver, whether it's trigger-cocking or being shot single action, and the width of the trigger, it's pretty much impossible to diagnose if someone is sticking their trigger finger too far inside the trigger guard.

    The most positive thing I can say is that if you think the chart helps, it helps. It may make you cognizant of some defect in your shot process. But as for technical correctness, it's pretty worthless.
     

    Steelhat

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    Sep 18, 2015
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    Let somebody else shoot it and/or shoot it from a bench rest and take your time.
    Another option I can think of, would be to check the sights with a laser bore sighter, but getting one for just verifying sight allignment on a pistol...
    If you also shoot scoped rifles and change/switch scopes then the investment of a bore sighter would be reasonable, IMHO.
     

    StevenC.

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    Not even close. Brian Zins likes to hold that chart up in his class and have a good laugh over it, quickly covering why it's crap, before he wads it up and throws it away.

    Flinching is random. Having no concept of a wobble zone and thus trying to make the gun go off while the sights are pointed at the middle of the target also produces random hits everywhere except where you want them.

    As for technique, there's right and wrong for every sport. Some action shooters, in super-slo-mo video, slap the trigger so ridiculously it's a wonder they hit anything. Yet while I can see that "error" happening, it's still the case that they'll all be better shots than me when they're 100 years old. (Having my ass handed to me on the pistol line by a 94-year-old, which I have done, is a pretty humbling experience.)

    But back to my point - all techniques can be right or wrong, depending. That chart makes all sorts of unwarranted assumptions. For example, it shows low shots as being due to drooping the head, breaking the wrist down, or pushing forward. Show me a high-end speed shooter who doesn't push forward. And if you're not on the high end, any of those three errors is likely to produce a shot that goes somewhere else on the target as your brain tries, at the last micro-second, to correct the sight alignment errors it observes.

    Another point? It shows errors due to grabbing too little or too much trigger. That's ridiculous. Without knowing if it's an auto or a DA revolver, whether it's trigger-cocking or being shot single action, and the width of the trigger, it's pretty much impossible to diagnose if someone is sticking their trigger finger too far inside the trigger guard.

    The most positive thing I can say is that if you think the chart helps, it helps. It may make you cognizant of some defect in your shot process. But as for technical correctness, it's pretty worthless.

    Well damn...

    Here I was mulling the idea of slaughtering that correction wheel because I thought it was fertilizer and you go and post this. Glad to know I am not the only one.

    About the only thing I have noted is correct is that snatching at the trigger alone will push a shot low and left and a pre-ignition push will push shots down.

    Respect, Ben.
     

    StevenC.

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    Having watched dozens of first time shooters fire at falling steel (pepper poppers) and miss over the top I surmised that one fundamental error is that the shooter is looking at the target and not the front sight. When asked, and when they can give a definitive answer, they say they were looking to see the steel fall. Well, hell, sparky- if you aren't looking at the front sight yer near certain to miss at popper at 11 yards. I see it on paper as well. You can watch their eyes.

    They never shift to the front sight or you can see them refocus to the target.

    Completely missed on the chart is when a shooter anticipates the shot and squeezes the left hand (off hand) and gets shots high and left. When I tell them to tighten their left hand hard from the get go they drill it.
     

    StevenC.

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    Mar 10, 2013
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    Went to the range today and first impression is okay. After shooting I do not like the gravity target system as I am 6' and I cant stand in the middle without hitting the wire(frustrating). Main point is I have been aiming directly in the center and I seem to be hitting about and inch or 2 to the bottom right(constantly). I am a left handed shooter and wanted some tips on what I can adjust to correct this. Thanks in advance for the tips.

    I'm not busting your balls... but, this is not enough information to get quality input from anyone.

    1"-2" to the low right, as a lefty...

    1" or 2"; which is it?
    1" or 2"; to the center or to the closest shot?
    At what distance?
    What size grouping?
    1"-2" low and right of perfect or 1"-2" off a 6" shoot-n-see?

    These details matter. Can you share more information or better still a picture of the target with details about the distance?
     
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