TRAFFIC STOPS

[leVieux]

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"TRAFFIC STOP"

A danger for Officer & Citizen

As a Civilian, with numerous LEO friends, I have requested advice at various times as to "EXACTLY what should a legally-armed Citizen do during a Police traffic-stop?"

The advice has always been different, at different times, locales, and departments.

Little old me decided long ago that I'm NOT going to reach for a weapon during one of these encounters, no matter what I am told to do. I'll comply as best I can otherwise, but not with that.

Funny, years back across most of the South, before "legal" C.C. if it seemed to be an issue, I'd just say "Officer, I have weapons; what would you like me to do?", never a problem.

Recently, I had a polite young rural Deputy unload and disassemble my two "carry guns" AFTER seeing my DL, CL, and State University Faculty Physician I.D. plus my telling him that my Son was a P.D. Detective in the next large town. Just for 4 or 5 mph over speed limit, no other factor. He never inquired, but we had three other loaded GLOCKS within reach the entire time. Was going on a "range trip".

A few days ago, I watched a Massad Ayoub video on this, excellent as always. Learned that if there is a trainee Officer on the other side of vehicle, any move towards a weapon could prove fatal.

A while back, was advised to exit vehicle, hands visible and wait for instructions. Then, it became "Stay in seat with both hands on upper steering wheel, window down, and wait." Ayoub said to have D.L., registration, & insurance card out before driving. We all know that's not going to happen.

Couldn't some national organization come up with UNIFORM procedures for us all to follow in cooperation?

Folks like me are no real threat to Officers and just want to keep everyone calm and safe, but are confused.

Experienced LEO's, please reply.

?

 

[Brains]

Not a LEO, but had plenty of interactions especially in my youth. What seemed to worked just fine for me was pretty simple. Respect. I offer it, they reciprocate. I'm pretty relaxed in traffic stops, I already know what I did to cause them to initiate the stop. They see me relaxed, they seem to relax a bit too, and everything has always gone smoothly. Been let go far more times than I've been cited.

 

[Tnhawk]

I keep my hands on top of the steering wheel with the keys on the dash. My DL, insurance card and Carry Permit are kept together and handed together to the officer when requested. If asked I tell officer where I have weapons located while keeping my hands on the wheel. Most officers have thanked me as they returned my permit. Often after running a warrant check the officer has told me to slow down without issuing a ticket. I try not do anything to cause the officer to be nervous, especially if he is young.
I removed the radar detector from my dash years ago as an AL highway patrol officer was very upset by it and I generally don't drive at excessive speeds. Most of the officers I've encountered respected being treated politely .

 

[striker55]

Put my DL and CHL on the dash with hands on steering wheel. One time on I-10 headed west, got pulled over. Didn't know why he singled me out, I was between cars, wasn't speeding. He was very cordial, asked if my gun was in the glove box. Said no it's on my hip, he said no problem. Got pulled over because my wife didn't like having a front plate on her Camaro. He just gave me a warning.

 

[1911'S 4 Me]

Turn off engine, roll down window, keep hands on steering wheel, IF nighttime turn on inside light.
DO NOT move until officer arrives at door, tell them you are carrying a handgun and have a license.

 

[Brains]

A simple "Hey, good morning/afternoon/evening" as (s)he reaches the window seems to set the tone pretty well.

Last stop, simple speeding where the limit dropped from 55 to 45, my 7 year old son had his window rolled down before the deputy reached the window, and he didn't hesitate to start talking his ear off. Guy thought that was a hoot, let us roll with a warning.

 

[benenglish]

tell them you are carrying a handgun

I wouldn't do that.

I'd hand them both the LTC and DL when they ask for ID. That's telling them I'm carrying without saying words that can be misinterpreted by a nervous rookie. I've only had to ID myself to an LEO while I was armed a few times since 1995 and I always do it by handing over two little state-issued cards when I'm asked for my DL. That has always worked very well.

I think any verbal declaration to an officer that you're armed PRIOR to establishing the context that you're an LTC holder is asking for trouble.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I've always rolled the window down and have both hands visible outside the vehicle, and just go from there.

 

[Sam7sf]

It’s important to have a game plan before you hit the road. My knowledge and experience is out dated but still practical.

I’ll say this guys: don’t put both hands on the steering wheel or dash. That’s what criminals do. I like my right hand on the steering wheel and the left arm over the window and just tell the guy hello and have a short conversation if the cops interested or safe to do so (maybe the spot pulled over isn’t the best).

I keep my registration in my driver side visor so my arms are visible. I keep my wallet in my left pocket so it’s the other side of any gun I might carry and can lean over showing I’m reaching for my pocket after commenting I’ll get my license.

I haven’t run into any dicks in Texas yet. But I also don’t drive asking to be pulled over. I’d say if people want to reduce interactions with le on the road...stop driving like shit.

I guess if I ever did encounter a dick or a cop that’s jumpy I’d just try to be kind and be like ok dude you tell me how you want me to move. It’s ok officer. It’s important to document things for misconduct but people just need to treat cops for what they are: people with stressful jobs.

 

[Daley_G]

I've looked into this quite a bit - especially with the way society has been changing lately. What I've read and been told by several LEOs is consistent with what everyone said above: respect and the least threatening environment you can create. Understand that the approaching LEO(s) already have a heightened sense of alert just because they don't know what they're getting into with any given stop. For me, it's pull over as quickly as can safely be done. This sets the tone that you're already displaying a willingness to comply. Get as far away from traffic as is practical. This shows that you're considering the safety of the LEO. Engine off, window down, hands on top of the wheel or outside the window. You're doing what you can to create a less-threatening encounter. Personally, I don't start reaching for stuff as soon as the stop is being initiated - I've been told this can look like you're trying to hide something. Instead, park and shut the engine off and sit there. When they reach the window, greet the officer in a respectful manner and explain that your DL and LTC is located wherever and you're going to slowly reach for it. Like Ben said - don't announce that you're carrying since that could potentially be construed as a threatening statement. Instead, let them ask.

With the above, I've never had a bad encounter and in fact the only time I've received a citation was when I was a kid and probably didn't offer as respectful a greeting as I would as an adult. Every stop I've had since has ended without a citation - with the last two being from Texas State Troopers.

 

[leVieux]

Put my DL and CHL on the dash with hands on steering wheel. One time on I-10 headed west, got pulled over. Didn't know why he singled me out, I was between cars, wasn't speeding. He was very cordial, asked if my gun was in the glove box. Said no it's on my hip, he said no problem. Got pulled over because my wife didn't like having a front plate on her Camaro. He just gave me a warning.

But, WHEN do you "Put my DL and CHL on the dash"? I have been specifically told to never reach for anything once blue lights went on.

 

[leVieux]

I've looked into this quite a bit - especially with the way society has been changing lately. What I've read and been told by several LEOs is consistent with what everyone said above: respect and the least threatening environment you can create. Understand that the approaching LEO(s) already have a heightened sense of alert just because they don't know what they're getting into with any given stop. For me, it's pull over as quickly as can safely be done. This sets the tone that you're already displaying a willingness to comply. Get as far away from traffic as is practical. This shows that you're considering the safety of the LEO. Engine off, window down, hands on top of the wheel or outside the window. You're doing what you can to create a less-threatening encounter. Personally, I don't start reaching for stuff as soon as the stop is being initiated - I've been told this can look like you're trying to hide something. Instead, park and shut the engine off and sit there. When they reach the window, greet the officer in a respectful manner and explain that your DL and LTC is located wherever and you're going to slowly reach for it. Like Ben said - don't announce that you're carrying since that could potentially be construed as a threatening statement. Instead, let them ask.

With the above, I've never had a bad encounter and in fact the only time I've received a citation was when I was a kid and probably didn't offer as respectful a greeting as I would as an adult. Every stop I've had since has ended without a citation - with the last two being from Texas State Troopers.

The DPS has improved quite a bit in the last 55 years. They used to be horrible. I know !

 

[dsgrey]

Yep, learned at age 18 to keep hands on the steering wheel and DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR. As soon as I cracked open the door I saw him draw his gun via my mirror.

I just hand them both licenses whether carrying or not. I listen to a scanner and dispatch always comes back to let them know if someone has an LTC whether the officer asks dispatch or not.

 

[Axxe55]

Rule of thumb for me, don't do things that could get me stopped in the first place. Tags, insurance all up to date. Vehicle in proper legal working order. Gun rode in console or glovebox. Never mentioned unless asked. Show officer respect and do what he asks when asked. Years ago when I rode bikes, it was a bit different.

A rookie police officer pulled a biker over for speeding and had the following exchange:
• Officer: May I see your driver's license?
• Biker: I don't have one. I had it suspended when I got my 5th DUI.
• Officer: May I see the owner's card for this vehicle?
• Biker: It's not my bike. I stole it.
• Officer: The motorcycle is stolen?
• Biker: That's right. But come to think of it, I think I saw the owner's card in the tool bag when I was putting my gun in there.
Officer: There's a gun in the tool bag?
• Biker: Yes sir. That's where I put it after I shot and killed the dude who owns this bike and stuffed his dope in the saddle bags.
• Officer: There's drugs in the saddle bags too?!?!?
• Biker: Yes, sir. Hearing this, the rookie immediately called his captain. The biker was quickly surrounded by police, and the captain approached the biker to handle the tense situation:
• Captain: Sir, can I see your license?
• Biker: Sure. Here it is. It was valid.
• Captain: Who's motorcycle is this?
• Biker: It's mine, officer. Here's the registration.
• Captain: Could you slowly open your tool bag so I can see if there's a gun in it?
• Biker: Yes, sir, but there's no gun in it. Sure enough, there was nothing in the tool bag.
• Captain: Would you mind opening your saddle bags? I was told you said there's drugs in them.
• Biker: No problem. The saddle bags were opened; no drugs.
• Captain: I don't understand it. The officer who stopped you said you told him you didn't have a license, stole this motorcycle, had a gun in the tool bag, and that there were drugs in the saddle bags.
• Biker: Yeah, I'll bet he told you I was speeding, too.

 

[striker55]

But, WHEN do you "Put my DL and CHL on the dash"? I have been specifically told to never reach for anything once blue lights went on.

When I'm pulling over.

 

[leVieux]

When I'm pulling over.

See, I've been told to never reach for anything at that time. . . . . . .

 

[Brains]

I've never quite figured out why cops turn on the celebration lights on top of their car when they lose a drag race.

 

[Texasjack]

I've had a few LEO encounters since getting CHL. (Yeah, I tend to think of the speed limit sign as a "suggestion".) My take is that every time they see the CHL - or even if I just explain that I have one - the encounters go far better than they ever did when I was unarmed. It seems to make Texas LEOs have some confidence that you are a law abiding citizen with respect for the police. Maybe that's just my read, but I've never been ticketed while carrying. There was an instance when I was trying to get home because I was coming down with the flu. The car ahead of me decided that 2 MPH was a good speed for going through the intersection, so I was very close to him in order to get through before the light changed. (And I was saying very bad things about him and his family tree, such as the fact that it didn't branch.) Cop pulled me over about 50 feet past the intersection. When he got to the window, I informed him that I had a gun in the truck and a CHL. He said, "Oh, that's fine. Personally, I think everybody should carry. I don't need to see it." He gave me a verbal warning, after checking license and insurance, then let me go saying, "I hope you feel better."

Now, all of my encounters have been in Texas. Other states? I can remember from my pipeline days that having out of state plates in some parts of Louisiana meant that it was open season for the cops. If they ask if you are tired and you reply, "Well, yeah, a little." that's enough for them to ticket or arrest you. Louisiana functions as it's own country - maybe 3rd World country. I saw a video a while back from a traffic stop in Ohio (I think it was Ohio) in which the driver legally possessed a pistol and openly told the cop, but the cop went absolutely nuclear on the guy. The cop did receive a reprimand, but always keep in mind that other states don't view firearms like we do. There was a case in upstate NY where a guy got arrested for having a concealed weapon because he had a softball bat on the floor of his back seat. He was driving home from a softball game and the bat was covered by his softball team jersey. (I would guess that he got lippy with the LEO and that's what precipitated the otherwise bogus charge.) Again, once you cross the Sabine, the Red, or the Rio Grande, all the rules change and not in your favor.

 

[JohnWayne10XX]

Respect-give it and 9/10 times they reciprocate. Then they start asking questions- like who built that, or where did you get that.
I literally spent an hour talking with an state trooper on the side of the road about guns and weird stuff he had seen.
I once gave away a pistol gripped mossberg 88 to a young deputy in Gonzales county. I had it in my work truck and he got me for me speeding.
I told him what I had under the back seat and he ran the serial number I guess.
Long story short he asked me what I paid for it. Which was nothing, as it was given to me as part of a trade.
He needed it more than me in his line of work, so I gave it to him with a box of shells.
Figured an investment in Karma couldn't hurt.

 

[tsugsr]

As one who has been on both sides, just be cool. Don’t be acting odd when the officer arrives at your window and be upfront with them. Chances are pretty damn good you will be cut lose with a warning unless you are complete Dick.


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