This Old Military Rifle

[V-Tach]

A few years ago I started a thread by this name on another Forum (which is now defunct). I think a dedicated Military Rifle thread which also gives some history of the rifle would be interesting and educational. I would ask fellow Members to post their old military rifles and a brief history of it for us all to enjoy. Please, do not post pics of your MSR's...we have a rifle picture thread for those. I am trying to keep rifles in this thread Pre 1960. Comments and additional information on the rifles posted here would be welcomed. Corrections to data presented also would be helpful and expected.

I would ask Members to help keep this thread on topic and respectfully ask that Moderators help in this endeavor.

It can be very time consuming to take/edit pics, research the rifle, type up something in your own words (please don't copy and paste or otherwise plagiarize some else's work) and give the resources of your information. Please be respectful (as we always are here on TGT) .

Fabrique Nationale Model 1949 FN-49, SAFN, or AFN (select fire version)



FN-49



Development for the FN-49 started in 1939 by Dieudonne Saive FN’s chief firearms designer at the time. Development was quickly impeded by Germany’s invasion of Poland and ultimately stopped in 1940 when Germany invaded Belgium and FN’s factory in Liege came under German occupation. Dieudonne Saive escaped to Portugal and eventually made his way to Great Britain where he remained until Liege was liberated and he returned in 1944. He had continued work on the FN-49 while in Great Britain. (He also designed the FAL) The original caliber he was experimenting with for the rifle was 7.92X57 Mauser The design was finalized in 1947.

One of the features of the rifle was an adjustable gas system (which he later utilized in the FAL). The hand guard had to be removed and a special wrench used to adjust the system which made it somewhat inconvenient to utilize under battle conditions.

While ready for production 1948, the first contract production run for another Country was the Venezuelan Contract in 1949. It consisted of 2000 rifles in 7X57 Mauser. Contracts for other Countries were produced in various calibers. The rifle had a fixed 10 round magazine. A select fire version was produced in limited numbers but maintained the fixed magazine which limited its usefulness..

The second Contract was Egypt. Egypt eventually received 37,602 SAFN 1949 rifles in 8mm Mauser.

The 3rd contract was for the Belgium Government which ultimately received 87, 777 rifles (almost half the total production of FN-49’s) in the caliber 30-06. Belgium troops used the rifle during the Korean War. Its battle worthiness was favorable by the troops. Some claimed it was more accurate and dependable than the M1 Garand



Luxembourg was the 4th contract for the rifles chambered in 30-06. A total of 6,036 rifles were received.



The 5th, 6th and 7th contracts were Indonesia, the Belgian Congo, and Colombia all in caliber 30-06.



The 8th contract run was Argentina for 5,536 SAFN 1949 rifles in caliber 7.65X53 Argentine in 1953. These were later modified with a detachable 20 rd box magazine and rechambered to 7.62X51 NATO. The magazines were proprietary.

Produced by Fabrique Nationale (FN)



In Service from 1949—1988

Number produced 176,000+

Weight 4.31 kg (9 lb 8 oz)

Length 1116 mm (43.54 in)

Barrel length 590 mm (23.23 in)

Calibers: 7X57, 8X57, 30-06, 7.62X51 NATO, 7.65X53 Argentine

Prototypes were also built in 6.5X55 for Sweden, 7.5X54 for France (Syria)

Countries adopting the SAFN-49

Argentina

Belgium

Brazil

Columbia

Republic of the Congo

Egypt

Indonesia

Luxembourg

Venezuela

Wars/Conflicts. Korean War, Congo Crisis, Suez Crisis, Falklands War (Sniper versions in limited use during the Falklands War).



Books

Resources Material taken from: Wikipedia, American Rifleman, Fandom



My Egyptian model bought from a fellow TGT Member

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[V-Tach]

 

[baboon]

I remember seeing select fire parts kits for them listed with Sarco in the 70's in the Shotgun News. I always wanted one, but ended up with something I wanted more.

 

[rl96ss]

V-Tach covered the info very well, so I do not have anything to add other than my pics.

First picture from left to right:

Egyptian in 8mm
Belgian Lux in 30-06
Argentine in .308

Last picture.
Venezuelan in 7mm

 

[TipBledsoe]

I have been onsite at the FN facilities many times. More than being described as a compound, it is very much more like its own self-supporting city walled within the city of Herstal, which is near, but very much apart from the city.of Liege.

The most striking thing about walking the streets between the numerous buildings is the ease in imagining one has been transported back in time when occupied by the Nazis. All the architecture of all the buildings are 1940s and older, and have.been very well kept and clean. Cobblestone streets, red brick walls and buildings, dark gray slate roofing, even "wavy" glassed windows.

Equally striking is the contrast when entering many of the buildings. With the exception of the Custom Shop, buildings contain quite modern precision manufacturing machinery, and are very clean and organized. The full-service cafeteria offers any and all Belgian cuisine and it is quite common to see many drinking wine or beer - mind you this was twenty years ago, but I have no reason to think that anything has changed.

Again, walking the streets among the 1940s architecture buildings and surroundings feeling transported back in time, there is no contrast whatsoever when stepping inside and walking through the Custom Shop. I was in complete awe, surrounded by very basic old world manufacturing tooling and techniques. No modern age factory workers can be found. These workmen are true craftsmen, or maybe fine artists is a better description of them. Everywhere I look I see the most beautiful Browning O/U shotguns I've ever seen and in many different stages of completion. Expert metal and woodworking craftsmen and even master engravers.

As I last knew, the FN company is entirely owned by the.country of Belgium. The FN company has a very rich and interesting history having manufactured many different things, even including.bicycles. Known primarily for thier very successful design and manufacture of high quality military arms. Largely unknown by many that FN.owns Browning.and Winchester (but not Olin), FN reveers the man who made such a large contribution to thier success, Mr. John M. Browning.

I generally detest most all things European, but I will treasure all my FN-Herstal memories that i had the honor of experiencing.

 

[striker55]

My step father was in the Korean war, he had a Springfield 30.06 bolt action. I would take it to the rifle range, that gun could shoot. I was in my 20's and loved shooting that gun. I took it deer hunting, never got a shot off. Before we went home we put an orange on a tree stump. Uncle had a 30.30 lever action with a scope, he missed. Friend had slug shotgun, he missed. Step father had a Winchester 30.20, he missed. I lifted the big Springfield, bam made orange juice.

 

[sdravei]

saw one for sale, I really considered buying

 

[V-Tach]

Russian SVT-40





Samozaryadnaya Vintovka Tokareva, Obrazets 1940 goda

(Tokarev self-loading rifle, model of 1940)



The Russian Army like most other Countries in the 1930’s were trying to modernize their armies with automatic and semi-automatic firearms. Stalin was no exception to this attempt at modernization.

Soviet small arms designer, Fedor Tokarev (who had designed the TT-33 service pistol) had a rifle design….the SVT-38. Sergei Simonov also had a design, the AVS-36. After trials, the AVS-36 won and it was pressed into service in 1936. The SVT-38 was then also adopted into service in 1938. The AVS-36 soon proved not to be the better rifle. The recoil impulse while helped by a muzzle brake was still deemed the rifle unsuitable for automatic fire. The operating system was over complicate for troops to work on in the field and production costs doomed the AVS-36. The SVT-38 was not without its problems. Production ceased in 1940 with about 65,000 rifles. The Defense Committee decided to concentrate on production of the SVT-38 in 1939. Stalin had a personal relationship with Tokarev and heavily influenced the Committee’s decision.

The SVT-38 was used in combat during the winter war of 1939-1940 against Finland. It also did not perform well in combat. Gas port problems (fouling), the propensity for the magazine to fall out during combat and inaccuracy was the end for the SVT-38. Production halted in early 1940. Around 150,000 units were produced.



The improved SVT-40 was adopted in 1940. Over one million SVT-40’s were produced in 1941. When Germany invaded, Russia suffered severe losses early during Operation Barbarossa. Hundreds of thousands Russian rifles were captured. This led to the reintroduction of the 91/30 being built again and issued to troops. Production diminished each and every year of the war until production was ceased altogether in early 1945.

Total Production (estimates)

SVT-38 150,000

SVT-40 1,600,000

A few automatic models were made AVT-40 but were failure prone and discontinued early in production.

A few carbine length rifles were also produced

Rifles were produced by Tula, IZhMASh and Kovov Arsenal







In Service: 1940 to present

Other Countries using the SVT-40:

Croatia

Czechoslovakia

Georgia

Poland

Ukraine

Soviet Union

Vietnam

Countries using captured rifles:

Estonian Partisans

Italian Partisans

Lithuania

Finland

Nazi Germany



Wars/Conflicts: Winter War (Finland) Continuation War (also Finland) WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War



Specifications:

Weight: 8.5 lbs unloaded

Length: 48.3 inches

Barrel Length 24.6 inches

Caliber 7.62X54R



Books

References: Wikipedia, Weapons Systems.net, the National Interest, Gun Digest, Recoil Magazine

My SVT-40 was made in 1940 at the Izhevsk No.74 plant. It is a CDI import. It has been force matched and Russian Arsenal reconditioned.
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[V-Tach]

Remington Rolling Block



While researching the interesting history of the Remington rolling block rifle, I realized it is impossible to give the full history of the rifle its variations and models. It is very interesting and if one is so inclined, could spend hours and hours (and I did). It was one of the most widely distributed guns around the world in its day. It was strong and reliable. It was simple to operate and accurate.



Production started after the war of Northern aggression in 1867 and continued right up to WWI (Military Models). Although prototypes were being built during the war, finalization did not occur in time to actually go into production. Originally chambered in rimfire cartridges only. The Remington No. 1 and the Sharps 1874 killed more buffalo than any other rifles. Popular with civilians and Indians. Rolling Blocks were reportedly used by the Indians at the Battle of Little Bighorn. Custer also had a sporting rolling block with him on his campaign. Pancho Villa’s band were carrying rolling blocks in 7mm Mauser during their 1916 raid into Columbus N.M...

The first models were Type 1 (model). There were ultimately 7 model types total. Type 1, 1 ½, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6.

My rifle is a type 5 and chambered in 7mm Mauser. It was part of the South American Military Contracts. Which Country? I do not know. Most Probably Mexico. It was manufactured in 1902.

There are many videos on the Remington Rolling Block. One of the shorter ones that was well done in my opinion is the one by Larry Potterfield. He speaks and shows the guns and doesn’t go into the lengthy detailed history the other videos do. The other videos are interesting but longer in length.







In Service: 1867-1918

Military Users:

Argentina

Austria-Hungary

Belgium

Bolivia

Brazil

Canada

Chili

China

Columbia

Cuba

Denmark

Dominican Republic

Egypt

El Salvador

Ethiopia

France

Greece

Guatemala

Haiti

Honduras

Italy

Jamaica

Japan

Korea

Madagascar

Mexico

Monaco

Morocco

Netherlands

Nicaragua

Norway

Panama

Paraguay

Persia

Puerto Rico

Philippine Republic

Spain

Sweden

United Kingdom

United States

Trinidad and Tobago

Venezuela

Yemen



Wars:

American Indian Wars, Franco Prussian War, Ten Years War, Third Carlist War, Cantonal Revolution, Conquest of the Desert, Ethiopian-Egyptian War, Serbian-Ottoman War, Russo-Turkish War, Little War, Mahdist War, Mapuche Uprising of 1881, Anglo-Egyptian War, South African Wars 1879-1915, War of the Pacific, Revolution of the Park, Chilean Civil War of 1881, First Melillan Campaign, Cuban War of Independence, Intentona de Yauco, Philippine Revolution, Greco-Turkish War 1897, Spanish American War, Philippine American War, Mexican Revolution, Italian-Turkish War, World War I, Anglo-Egyptian Darfur Expedition



Calibers:

.50 Berdan

.50-70

.50-45 (carbine models)

12.7 X 45

12.17 X 42mm RF

12.17 X 44mm R

.43 Spanish

.43 Egyptian

10.15 X 61mm R

8 X 58mm R (Danish)

8 X 50mm Lebel

11 X 59mm R Gras

.303 Brit

7.65 X 53mm Argentine

.30-40 Krag

30-06 Springfield

7.62 X 54R

30 Remington

7 X 57 Mauser

6.5mm Daudeleau No. 12

.236 Remington

11mm Danish​

Specifications​
Mass	9.25 lb (4.20 kg)
Length	50.4 in (1,280 mm) to 53.3 in (1,350 mm)
Barrel length	35.7 in (910 mm) to 37.4 in (950 mm)

Total Produced including foreign licensed 70 million+



References: Wikipedia, History.Net, The Remington Rolling Block by George Layman, Remington No. 1 Rolling Block by Chuck Hawes, Fandom, The Free Library.


Books

Custer with his sporting rolling block

Custer with sporterized trapdoor and Buffalo Bill with a rolling block

My Rolling Block
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[kmcn762]

I love this idea and really need to do more write-ups on my milsurps.

Here is one that I already created a write-up for: my Argentine Mauser Model 1891.

This rifle along with the Belgian Model 1889 are probably the first true modern bolt action rifles. While the French 1886 Lebel was the first smokeless powder rifle, it was still an out-dated design using a cartridge derived from a black powder round.

The 1889/1891 Mausers used a five-round single-stack internal box magazine fed by stripper clips and fired the 7.63x53mm Mauser. A rimless, smallbore, bottleneck cartridge that is modern by any standard.

The Argentine rifles were produced by Ludwig-Loewe, Mauser, and Deutsche Waffen und Munition-Fabrik from 1891 to 1901. This one happens to be a Loewe that dates to 1895, making it an 'antique'.

These rifles are extremely smooth and certainly have that old-world craftsmanship. While quickly out-paced by the 1893 and 1898 Mausers in design, these rifles are excellent shooters and have a place in any collection. There almost seem to be more sporters made out of these than complete military rifles these days, so be sure to watch out for bubba when buying one.

I picked up this very nice example at the massive Tulsa gunshow a couple years ago for $340 with the brass handle bayonet. AKA I stole the damn thing. I also happened to already have an aluminum handle bayonet for it.

The brass handle ones were produced from 1891-1893 in the first contract but were phased out in favor of lighter aluminum due to the already hefty rifle. The brass handle bayonets are often known as "Navy" or "Police" or "Officer" bayonets which has no historical backing.

My rifle is all matching, including the magazine, stock, bolt and even cleaning rod.

While not common, it is not too difficult to find these all matching. Unfortunately, as with most Argentine milsurp stuff, the crest has been scrubbed for export.

The sights go to an optimistic 2000 empanada-meters or whatever they used, pretty standard for the day.

The handguard (this has the early shorter version) is held on by copper wire which I find both impressive that it stayed on so long and hilarious for its simplicity.

The barrel is almost mint. I was surprised how nice it is. Really need to try for a good group sometime.


My two bayonets show both original markings and export scrubbing. Both are made by Weyersburg-Solingen.

I picked up what I believe to be an original sling a few months before getting the rifle, which is rare for a rifle this old. From the few pictures I have seen it could be. Guy had it marked as an Argentine 1909 sling. If anyone knows more please correct me.

If you have any questions let me know. Other than that enjoy and get out and shoot!

 

[baboon]

I bought this O3A3 because it was bubba’d up so badly. I traded the original military stock for this one. The guy loved the old stock so much he even sent me $200.00 back.

It took a while to find the right smith to do the work. One guy had it for a year and never touched it.

 

[V-Tach]

kmcn762, Thank you for your contribution to the thread, looking forward to seeing others you have.....

baboon.......I must say, that is the only M1903A3 that is non original that I thought.......wow! Extremely well done!

You must be psychic as I wrote up the M1903 last night and will posting it after I snap a few pics today.....

 

[baboon]

baboon.......I must say, that is the only M1903A3 that is non original that I thought.......wow! Extremely well done!

You must be psychic as I wrote up the M1903 last night and will posting it after I snap a few pics today.....

I have the original barrel for it if anyone is in need of one.

I had a really nice example of one in may teens that I horse traded away & always regretted. When I thought I could replace it I found prices had gone through the roof.

IIRC I paid $250 for it knowing whoever tried to drill & tap the receiver had phuced it up bad. To make this even more non original it's in .308.

The work was done by Mike Klos @ American Manufacturing. I highly reccommend him. His quote on price & time were on the money. His parkerizing is killer.

 

[V-Tach]

Springfield M1903

(A brief and in no way exhaustive history)





While the Krag-Jorgensen rifle was a decent rifle, some attributes were quickly outdated. During the Spanish American War in 1898 the 7mm Mauser rifles being used against the Americans were superior in many ways to the Krag and Trapdoor rifles. The Krag was lower powered and the Krag action could not withstand increased pressures that were needed to match the 7mm cartridge performance. It was also much slower to reload. The trapdoor was severely outdated…Both American rifles were soon to be permanently replaced.



Captured Spanish Mauser M1893 rifles were examined and the U.S needed a new rifle... The first new .30 caliber prototype was in 1900 and was rejected. The 1901 .30 caliber prototype was also rejected. The 1900 prototype was revamped and was adopted in 1903. Because some design features similar to the Gewehr 98 was used, Mauser Werke brought suit against the US Government for patent infringement and the US Government ultimately paid 3 million to Mauser Werke in royalties.



Rifles were produced by the federally owned Springfield Armory and Rock Island Armory and by early 1905 over 80,000 had been produced. The early guns had a sliding rod type bayonet which then President Theodore Roosevelt himself complained so loudly about that it was scrapped and the much superior M1905 bayonet adopted. The original caliber of the M1903 was the 30-03 also called the 30-45 because of the 45 grain powder charge, but as adopted the official nomenclature was the 30-03.



The 30-03 cartridge

In 1905 is was decided a better cartridge design using a spire point projectile would be more effective. In 1906 the newly adopted cartridge was designated the M1906, 30-06 or 30 Government. The parent case was the 30-03 case.

The 30-06 cartridge

The M1903 would first see action in 1916 during General Pershing’s expedition into Mexico. By all accounts, it performed well.

With the entry of the US into WWI there were approximately 843,000 + rifles produced by Rock Island and Springfield armory’s at that time. Some Pre-War production rifles had what some have called questionable metallurgy and documented failure of the receivers were reported. No deaths, but some serious injuries did occur. Even to this day there is a heated debate (on both sides of the issue) on whether these low serial numbered rifles should be fired or just hung on the wall. Serial numbers under 800,000 for Springfield and under 285507 for Rock Island are the receivers in question.

. Toward the end of the WWI Springfield produced the M1903 Mark 1 which utilized the famed Pedersen Device. The rifle was modified and the bolt replaced by insert which allowed the rifle to shoot 30 caliber pistol ammunition from a 40 round detachable magazine semi-automatically. It was never adopted and examples are rare.

US involvement in WWII led to the production of M1903 Rifles by both Remington and Smith Corona. Remington used tooling from the Rock Island Amory which closed in 1919. Early WWII Remington rifles utilized milled parts. This eventually changed to stamped parts for cost and to increase production. Production of the M1903 was halted in favor of the M1903A3 which had been updated with a new sight mounted on the rear of the receiver similar to the M1 Garand. Remington M1903’s were made in 1942. Then only made the M1903A3 starting in 1943 till the end of production.

In 1942 Smith Corona Typewriter was contracted to produce the M1903A3 in its Syracuse NY plant. In order to speed up production 2 groove barrels were utilized. Supposedly there was no significant accuracy problems incurred by this change. All Smith Corona M1903A3’s were made in 1943 and 1944.

The M1903A4 was the sniper version adopted in 1943 and was used till the end of the war. Its effectiveness was hampered by the optics in use at the time. There were multiple variants over the years for use by air crews to an experimental bullpup version…





In Service 1903-1975



Specs

Weight: 8.7 lbs

Length: 43.2 inches

Barrel Length: 24 inches



Calibers

30-03 Springfield

30-06 Springfield



Wars/Conflicts

Philippine American War

Banana Wars

Mexican Revolution

WWI

Irish War of Independence

Irish Civil War

Coto War

WWII

Egyptian Revolution 2952

Greek Civil War

First Indochina War

Chinese Civil War

Indonesian National Revolution

Korean War

Cuban Revolution

Hukbalahap Rebellion

Algerian War

Vietnam War (Sniper 1903A4)

Bay of Pigs Invasion

Cambodian Civil War


Users



Brazil

Cambodia

China

Costa Rica

Cuba

Ethiopian Empire

France

Greece

Haiti

Honduras

Italian Partisans

Japan

Laos

Netherlands

New Zealand

Nicaragua

North Vietnam

Peru

Philippines

China

South Korea

Taiwan

Thailand

United Kingdom

United States



References

Wikipedia, Springfield Armory, Fandom


Books

​

My Remington M1903 has a barrel date of 1942. The Serial Number dates it to 1942. It is all matching and retains 98% of its finish. The walnut stock is actually quite beautiful when seen in person. It has all milled parts and nothing has been changed that I can tell. No import marks.

My M1903A3 Smith Corona has a barrel date of 1943. It has stamped parts and is non matching. No import marks. It retains most of its finish and has a two groove barrel. By serial number the rifle was made in early 1943.

I am still looking for an early WWI rifle and someday I will stumble across the right one.

​

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[V-Tach]

I have the original barrel for it if anyone is in need of one.

I had a really nice example of one in may teens that I horse traded away & always regretted. When I thought I could replace it I found prices had gone through the roof.

IIRC I paid $250 for it knowing whoever tried to drill & tap the receiver had phuced it up bad. To make this even more non original it's in .308.

The work was done by Mike Klos @ American Manufacturing. I highly reccommend him. His quote on price & time were on the money. His parkerizing is killer.

Ahh....but it was your vision of what the rifle should be that the gunsmith executed......

Excellent job by both of you!

 

[scattergun6]

The 1889/1891 Mausers used a five-round single-stack internal box magazine fed by stripper clips and fired the 7.63x53mm Mauser. A rimless, smallbore, bottleneck cartridge that is modern by any standard.

The Argentine rifles were produced by Ludwig-Loewe, Mauser, and Deutsche Waffen und Munition-Fabrik from 1891 to 1901. This one happens to be a Loewe that dates to 1895, making it an 'antique'.

Very nice writeup on your 7.65 Argentine. Here's mine:

A DWM Berlin cavalry carbine, numbers matching except for the stock, which has most likely been refinished. The bore is very crusty, and I am in search of a replacement.
I have always loved the look of this rifle and snatched it up without looking too closely at the bore.
A sporterized 1891 was my first deer rifle, purchased by my father as one of a pair for me and my older brother. I kick myself for letting that one go for not much more than lunch money - could sure use that barrel now!
Dies, brass and bullets await...gonna put this old warhorse back into service.

 

[baboon]

Ahh....but it was your vision of what the rifle should be that the gunsmith executed......

Excellent job by both of you!

The smith that had it for a year & did nothing blames it on not having a barrel wrench. Mike made his own wrench. I think when I told him what I wanted it was way over his head.

 

[V-Tach]

Egyptian Hakim



A variant copy of the Swedish AG m/42 rifle made in Egypt with dies and tooling purchased from Sweden. It was produced from the 50’s to early 60’s when it was replaced by the Egyptian (Licensed) Maadi AK-47 variant.

One feature the Hakim had the m/43 didn’t was an adjustable gas system. The m/43 was chambered in 6.5X55 and the Hakim is chambered in 8mm Mauser. The Egyptians also added a muzzle brake (non removable).



It is a direct impingement gas system utilizing the Tokarev-pattern tipping bolt system also found in the FN-49, SKS and MAS rifles. Egypt had large stockpiles of surplus 8mm ammunition hence the chambering.



The gas system is adjusted by special wrench directly in front of the receiver on top of the barrel. Featured a 10 round detachable magazine that could also be fed from 5 round stripper clips from the top of the receiver.



In service from 1950’s to the mid 1960’s

Countries

Egypt, South Yemen, Tunisia and Somalia



Total production was + or - 70,000

References: Wikipedia



Books

I bought the Hakim from a TGT Member and do not know its history. The stock disc is a reproduction, otherwise the rifle is original. It is loud.

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[V-Tach]

United States Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917 (P17)

(An Abbreviated History)



The American Enfield





The British like all the world militaries at the time were looking to upgrade/modernize their small arms. They believed the .303 cartridge to be less accurate at long ranges compared to the 7X57 Mauser and 30-06 Springfield. Their standard issue rifle at the time was the SMLE which was a decent rifle in its time but the future was spitzer (pointed) bullets, smokeless powder and detachable magazines. Although the SMLE had a detachable magazine the .303 was rimmed and had been originally a black powder cartridge. Rimless cartridges were better suited for quicker reloading and machine guns.

The British developed what became the P13 Enfield (Pattern 13). Although spitzer projectiles were added to the .303 ammunition in 1910, they developed another cartridge for the P13. A more powerful rimless cartridge the .276 Enfield.

WWI would not wait for the British to perfect their new cartridge and be put into production. The British needed rifles. They needed them quickly. Contracts with Winchester, Remington and Eddystone (a subsidiary of Remington) to produce the now named P14 rifle. For logistical reasons the P14 would be chambered in the Brits standard issue .303 ammunition.

The US would soon be entering the war itself and also needed rifles. Although Springfield (Rock Island Armory closed in 1910) had produced over 800,000 1903’s it wasn’t enough. Rather than spend the money (and time) to retool the three P14 plants to produce 1903’s it seemed a quicker, simpler and cost effective plan would be to modify the P14 to use our 30-06 cartridge and Winchester, Remington and Eddystone started producing the M1917 (our nomenclature) for the US Government. Both 2 groove and 4 groove barrels can be found on the rifles.

Few design changes were necessary. Barrels were chambered for 30-06 Springfield. The internal magazine, stripper clip feed and bolt face were adapted to accommodate the 30-06 cartridge. A new bayonet designated the M1917 (a blade of 17 inches) for the rifle began production. The Bayonet is also used on the M97 and M12 trench guns (shotguns). The internal box magazine held 6 rounds although stripper clips only held 5.

Production numbers far exceeded the M1903 with over 2193,000 rifles produced. Approximately 75% of the American forces in Europe during WWI carried a P17. SGT York carried a P17 (Eddystone) and a Colt 1911. In the 1920’s and 1930’s the Government released many P17’s for sale through the NRA. The rifle was so popular that Remington produced 30,000 of them calling them the Model 30 from 1921-1940 for the civilian market. As the action is very strong, many large caliber custom rifles were built from Surplus M1917’s. Eddystone produced more M1917’s than Winchester and Remington combined. The troops preferred the M1903 though, due to being over a pound lighter and shorter.



In U.S. Service: 1917-1945



Wars/Conflicts

WWI

Banana Wars

Spanish Civil War

WWII

First Indochina War

Chinese Civil War

Korean War

Hukbalahap Rebellion

1958 Lebanon Crisis

Portuguese Colonial War

Vietnam War (limited)

Laotian War (limited)

Lebanese Civil War (limited)

Soviet- Afghan War



Countries:

Afghanistan

Canada

Republic of China

Peoples Republic of China

Denmark

Ethiopian Empire

France

Honduras

Ireland

Japan

North Korea

Netherlands

Norway

Philippines

South Vietnam

Spanish Republic

United Kingdom

United States

Vietnam (used by the Viet Cong and Viet Minh supplied to them by China)



Specifications

Weight: 9.187 pounds

Length: 46.3 inches

Barrel Length: 26 inches



Chambering’s:

30-06 Springfield

7.92X57 (sold to the Chinese during WWII)





Resources: Wikipedia, NRA, oldguns.net, Texas State Historical Society



I found my Remington M1917 in a little mom and pop gun shop in New Hampshire about 4 years ago. I boxed it up and shipped it home. We have extended family there and I always find something to bring back. The bore is dark and rifling strong, no pitting. No cracks in the wood and a barrel date of 12/17. According to serial number records the rifle was made in February 1918. It was a cool coincidence that it had been re-arsenaled in San Antonio (The SSAA Cartouche).


From the TSHA Handbook of Texas

SAN ANTONIO ARSENAL. The San Antonio Arsenal was founded in 1859 to furnish arms and munitions to the frontier forts in Texas. During the Civil War the twenty-one-acre reservation was occupied by Confederate forces and the supplies were used for the Confederate war effort. After the war the United States Army once again took possession of the complex, and over the course of the next half century it was gradually enlarged; by the end of World War 1 the arsenal comprised thirty-eight buildings. During both world wars it served as a major supply depot. The volume of operations reached its height during World War II, when it shipped more than 337,000,000 pounds of ammunition. The arsenal was closed in 1949, although its buildings continued to be used as federal government offices. In 1972 two acres and three buildings were transferred to the city of San Antonio to be used as parkland under the Department of the Interior's Bureau of Outdoor Recreation. Several of the remaining buildings were torn down. In 1985 HEB bought the remaining ten acres on the bank of the San Antonio River and remodeled the existing structures for the grocery company's corporate headquarters.

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[V-Tach]

Gewehr 88

Also called the Commission 88

(An abbreviated history)

Smokeless powder caused a revolution in firearms in the late 19th century. It rendered all previous military large bore black powder rifles obsolete immediately. The French were quick to adopt a cartridge and rifle utilizing smokeless powder. Smokeless powder had been invented in 1884 by the French chemist Paul Vieille. The rifle was the Lebel Model 1886 and fired the smaller bore 8X50mmR Lebel cartridge. The French now had a rifle with more power, longer range and accuracy than their German foes.

The Rifle Testing Commission recommended the adoption and Kaiser Wilhelm II signed the orders on November 2nd 1888. The original cartridge (Patrone 88) utilized a 226 gr. Round nose projectile 8.08mm in diameter. The cartridge utilized a single base smokeless powder. In 1905 it was replaced with the 7.92X57 Mauser S Patrone which utilized an 8.20mm 154 gr. Spitzer projectile and a double based smokeless powder. This resulted in a 40% velocity increase and 30% more muzzle energy. We know this round as the 8mm Mauser today.


In 1905 Gewehr 88 rifles were converted to the new cartridge, signified by an S stamped on the receiver. These are known as the 88 S rifles. My Karabiner is stamped as such.

The rifle utilized a 5 round en bloc clip which was loaded from the top of the receiver and as the rounds were expended the clip dropped from the bottom of the receiver. My rifle has a dust cover to protect the receiver from dirt and debris when not in use.

In 1905 rifles were also converted to use Gewehr 98 stripper clips. Stripper clip guides were added to the rear of the receiver and the magazine altered (fixed internal magazine). These became the 88/05 rifles. My Karabiner did not receive this conversion.

The Karabiner was designed for mounted cavalry. Usually carried in a leather scabbard, the design required the rifle to be more “snag free” than the infantry rifles. The bolt is turned down and has a spoon handle, the barrel shroud is tapered from the receiver to front sight. The front sight has protectors. The barrel shroud was intended to improve accuracy being the barrel didn’t touch the stock. In actuality it increased rusting of the barrel due to moisture being trapped in the shroud.

There were two Karabiner models one for the cavalry and one for artillery soldiers. The only difference in the two is the artillery model has a stacking lug near the muzzle. The Karabiner is much shorter than the infantry Gewehr 88 rifle



Karabiner Specifications

Length 37 inches

Weight 6 lbs. 13 oz.

Barrel Length 19 inches.


Calibers

Patrone 88 (M/88) and 8mm Mauser


In Service

1888-1921 and 1944-45 (Germany)



Total Production 2,800,000



Users

Austria-Hungary

Brazil

Kingdom of Bulgaria

Czechoslovakia

Ecuador

Ethiopian Empire

German Empire

Nazi Germany

Kingdom of Greece

Haganah

Irish Republic

Malayan National Liberation Army (Karabiner 88 in small numbers)

Orange Free State

Ottoman Empire

Peru

Second Polish Republic

Qing Dynasty

Republic of China

South African Republic

Republic of Lithuania

Spanish Republic

Turkey

Kingdom of Yugoslavia

United Kingdom

Ulster Volunteers



Wars/Conflicts

First Sino-Japanese War

War of Canudos

Second Boer War

Boxer Rebellion

Herero Wars

Constitutionalist Revolution

Maji Maji Rebellion

Xinhai Revolution

World War I

Easter Rising

Warlord Era

Russian Civil War

German Revolution of 1918-1919

Hungarian Revolution

Poland Uprising

Polish-Soviet War

Irish War of Independence

Silesian Uprisings

Turkish War of Independence

Lithuanian War of Independence

Sheikh Said Rebellion

Ararat Rebellion

Chinese Civil War

Second Italo-Ethiopian War

Spanish Civil War

Second Sino-Japanese War

Sudeten German Uprising 1938

World War II

1948 Palestinian War

Malayan Emergency

Korean War



References: Wikipedia, Lock, Stock and History, International Military Antiques, Fandom



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My rifle was given to me by a dear friend several years ago for my collection. It was made in 1890. At some point in it's life it met with Bubba and he drilled a hole and removed some wood to mount a sling swivel on the buttstock (as seen in the pics). He also cut the protective ears off around the front sight. Please when you find an unmolested Mil Surp gun.....Do not molest it !