Target Sports

Thinking about a rifle purchase

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • satx78247

    Member, Emeritus
    Emeritus - "Texas Proud"
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jun 23, 2014
    8,479
    96
    78208
    One of the big arguments against the remington series of pump rifles is they are not much more than hunting rifles, they do not have the engineering of the G3, FAL, AR10, M1/BM59, or even the M14 behind them.

    Their parts will not hold up to the abuse a fighting rifles parts will, they will not last long once you use them to shoot more than a few times a year.

    And while you might be able to shoot one quickly, that increase in rate of fire dissapears once you get into unconventional posistions. There is a reason why pump actions didn't see widespread adoption in militaries looking for repeaters. And there is the further issue of making the shooter do more work, or letting the gun do it. I'd rather have the gun do as much of the work as possible

    BM59's are neat, but I don't think the Garand action meshes well with detachable box magazines

    zackmars,

    GRANTED THAT the Model760 is mostly a hunting rifle but it is MORE EFECTIVE AT 300M than any M4 will ever be.

    IF the time should come when I need a MBR again, there will be plenty on the ground to pick up.

    Have YOU ever handled or even fired a BM59?? = IF you have NOT, don't judge what a GREAT MBR that the BM59 is or is not.

    yours, satx
     

    Glenn B

    Retired & Loving It
    TGT Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Sep 5, 2019
    7,450
    96
    Texarkana - Across The Border
    I would thing the type & amount of apex predators an animal has adds to its toughness.
    I think that is also what adds to their size from what I remember if several shows I have watched about dinosaurs and even about ancient long extinct mammals were correct in what they said. That was essentially that the bigger and fiercer were the predators, the bigger were the prey. Of course, then mankind came along and fucked that all up because extremely superior intelligence then came into play.
     

    Vaquero

    Moving stuff to the gas prices thread.....
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Apr 4, 2011
    44,208
    96
    Dixie Land
    I think that is also what adds to their size from what I remember if several shows I have watched about dinosaurs and even about ancient long extinct mammals were correct in what they said. That was essentially that the bigger and fiercer were the predators, the bigger were the prey.
    Heh.
    I just envisioned a T-rex in a west Texas gravel pit trying to catch a cottontail.
     

    zackmars

    Free 1911 refinishing
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 4, 2015
    5,609
    96
    Texas
    zackmars,

    GRANTED THAT the Model760 is mostly a hunting rifle but it is MORE EFECTIVE AT 300M than any M4 will ever be.

    IF the time should come when I need a MBR again, there will be plenty on the ground to pick up.

    Have YOU ever handled or even fired a BM59?? = IF you have NOT, don't judge what a GREAT MBR that the BM59 is or is not.

    yours, satx

    Yes, I've handled a few BM59's, shot one too. I also own an M1 Garand, which is the same gun with a superior (for the reciever design) feed system.

    Its better than the M1a, slightly worse than a Garand. Not exactly earth shattering. For general purpose rifle needs, its still near the bottom of the pack behind the FAL and G3, and AR10 if you want to include it.

    I can absolutely guarantee you that at 300 yards, meters, whatever, a guy with a 5.56 AR would eat your lunch unless you stick him with irons, and you have optics, skill levels being the same

    You can not match the *effective* rate of fire of a 5.56 ar at any distance, you will be hampered by your guns fragility, and by how difficult your gun becomes to operate in poor conditions, prone, barricaded, etc. It is a commercial design. And as such it comes with all the pitfalls a comercial design entails.

    Just because remington at one point desperately tried to claw a tiny niche market for a somewhat poorly selling gun, doesn't mean it's any good past putting meat in a freezer and getting shot maybe 20 rounds a year.

    "There will be plenty of them lying around" yeah no.
     
    Last edited:

    Maverick44

    Youngest old man on TGT.
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Problems are... I don't have a clue "... roller delayed"??? "... charging handle" ????

    don't want me no gussied up Hi Point!!!

    To further clarify what a roller delayed blowback does...



    PleasedFreeKid-small.gif


    It's a good design, but as Zach stated, it has some drawbacks.

    An AR-15 and AR-10 uses a kind of unique gas piston system that is often confused for a direct gas impingement system. It's not. The AR series of rifles does in fact have a gas piston. It is housed inside the bolt carrier.



    Ignore that this is labeled as "gas impingement" It's not. Notice how the gas enters the bolt carrier and causes the bolt carrier to move backwards. This forces the bolt to rotate and thus unlocks the action.

    387bf-ar15-gasimpingement.gif


    This system has some issues too, but not many. People tend to give the AR a lot of crap for "shitting where it eats" (expelling dirty gas into the action), but the issues caused by this are way overstated. You would have to shoot a LOT for this to ever cause problems. The action seems to have the advantage of actually blowing sand and dirt away from the action due to it venting out of the ejection port. It's a very reliable gun. There's a reason why so many militaries are adopting AR style guns, and why special force across the world tend to pick the AR series of rifles more than any other for their needs. They work, and they work well.

    I will give you my honest opinion. You are not going to get a better rifle for what you want than a 16" AR-15 in 5.56. The AK is about 95-98% as good in my opinion as are many other modern semi auto rifles, but the AR is the perfect balance of price, light weight, low recoil, high capacity, accuracy, modularity, durability, and reliability. It is a proven design with 64 years of R&D and military use behind it. It is a very simple gun to maintain, and very easy to use.
     

    Dougw1515

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 14, 2020
    3,488
    96
    USA
    If you're getting your first rifle due to current events get an AR in 5.56. Second choice is AK in 7.62x39.
    Yup... as I start eliminating rifles for various reasons that, AR in 5.56, certainly seems to be where I'm headed. I still like the 7.62x39 round too though soooo...
     

    Dougw1515

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 14, 2020
    3,488
    96
    USA
    To further clarify what a roller delayed blowback does...



    PleasedFreeKid-small.gif


    It's a good design, but as Zach stated, it has some drawbacks.

    An AR-15 and AR-10 uses a kind of unique gas piston system that is often confused for a direct gas impingement system. It's not. The AR series of rifles does in fact have a gas piston. It is housed inside the bolt carrier.



    Ignore that this is labeled as "gas impingement" It's not. Notice how the gas enters the bolt carrier and causes the bolt carrier to move backwards. This forces the bolt to rotate and thus unlocks the action.

    387bf-ar15-gasimpingement.gif




    This system has some issues too, but not many. People tend to give the AR a lot of crap for "shitting where it eats" (expelling dirty gas into the action), but the issues caused by this are way overstated. You would have to shoot a LOT for this to ever cause problems. The action seems to have the advantage of actually blowing sand and dirt away from the action due to it venting out of the ejection port. It's a very reliable gun. There's a reason why so many militaries are adopting AR style guns, and why special force across the world tend to pick the AR series of rifles more than any other for their needs. They work, and they work well.

    I will give you my honest opinion. You are not going to get a better rifle for what you want than a 16" AR-15 in 5.56. The AK is about 95-98% as good in my opinion as are many other modern semi auto rifles, but the AR is the perfect balance of price, light weight, low recoil, high capacity, accuracy, modularity, durability, and reliability. It is a proven design with 64 years of R&D and military use behind it. It is a very simple gun to maintain, and very easy to use.


    Thanks for adding the tutorial videos - helped a lot. After reviewing all the info posted it looks like I'm in the market for an AR-15 in 5.56. At this point in time I'm not interested in building one myself. My nature is to over-kill everything I build/make so without much effort I could take a <$1K build and easily hit the 3-4K mark without ever knowing exactly "why" other than it'd be kick-ass and few folks would have a similar gun.

    So now I'm here. Which one to focus on? I'd like to stay with a manufactured rifle. I'm not intelligent enough to critique a custom build and what the builder did right or wrong. Too much to absorb in too little time. I did see a M&P AR but I don't recall if it was a 10 or 15. Nice looking gun though and one I'd consider if the general consensus is that S&W puts out a good AR.

    What other recommended AR-15 mfgs. would be recommended to fill the void I'm trying to fill?

    Thanks to all for the input! It's helped - alot!
     

    IXLR8

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    May 19, 2009
    4,418
    96
    Republic of Texas
    You have to start somewhere. Buy your AR, and if you see something better then buy it. It is difficult to decide based on the opinion of others.

    Until you take your first step, you won’t know if the path you are taking is where you want to go.

    The AR offers a high degree of modifications that can be made to suit your tastes. The parts are generally readily available, and low cost compared to other platforms.

    Stick with a standard caliber until you find a need for the benefits offered by another.

    Post pictures of what you get and give us a range report on how well you like it.
     

    Bozz10mm

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 5, 2013
    9,616
    96
    Georgetown
    So now I'm here. Which one to focus on? I'd like to stay with a manufactured rifle. I'm not intelligent enough to critique a custom build and what the builder did right or wrong. Too much to absorb in too little time. I did see a M&P AR but I don't recall if it was a 10 or 15. Nice looking gun though and one I'd consider if the general consensus is that S&W puts out a good AR.

    What other recommended AR-15 mfgs. would be recommended to fill the void I'm trying to fill?

    Thanks to all for the input! It's helped - alot!
    The S&W M&P Sport II is an excellent place to start. Or even A Ruger AR 556 or Ruger AR 556 MPR. Both of those brands have great reps and are at the lower end of the price scale. The S&W would be my first choice for getting into ARs.
     

    TreyG-20

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    39   0   0
    Dec 16, 2011
    6,368
    96
    Central
    There is a Romanian WASR-10 listed in Houston here on this forum. Hard to go wrong with a comblock AK. They just work. Ammo is pretty much the cheapest for a centerfire rifle.
     

    Bozz10mm

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 5, 2013
    9,616
    96
    Georgetown
    I only skimmed 8 pages so maybe this was covered and I missed it...

    How - the hell - does one have 2000 posts on a firearm forum and not own a rifle? I'm closer to the opposite, 2000 rifles before my first post on a forum.
    Before I joined the forum, I didn't have much in the way of rifles either. A 788 bolt action and a 10/22 :)
     
    Every Day Man
    Tyrant

    Support

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    116,119
    Messages
    2,953,343
    Members
    34,941
    Latest member
    Irowland1994
    Top Bottom