Things you learn about your govt.

[KellyAsh]

I just learned about an event in our history that blew me away. I've never thought our gov't was an honest and straight forward group but this just really puts alot of questions in my head as to what our gov't is really capable of. It's unreal that people this high up in or gov't would consider acts like these.

In 1962 top members of our gov't (the Joint Chiefs of Staff in this case) proposed to falsely create justification for an invasion of Cuba that would have cost hundreds, if not thousands, of American soldiers, sailors, and marines lives in the ensuing fight. It was named Operation Northwoods and it proposed a series of false and staged attacks on Americans and our assets in order to invade Cuba. Fortunately McNamara, then Sec. of Defense, didnt go along with the plan so it never happened. Does anybody that was around back then remember this? If so, was it brought out in the news? How open was the govt about it?

Here's the documentation: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

 

[Texasjack]

You're kidding, right? You were surprised? Never read about the Bay of Pigs invasion? Gulf of Tonkin Resolution?

First off, the line to pi$$ on McNamara's grave should be 500 miles long. He killed more of our soldiers than the Viet Cong. If he didn't go along with a plan, it was because he couldn't figure out how his buddies could profit from it.

There is a big controversy right now because of the group that is cherry-picking what should be in school textbooks. Most of what your are taught in school - and most of what is in history books - is what someone WANTED printed. It may be the truth, it may just be a plausible story.

How is it that your name has "banned' under it?

 

[KellyAsh]

No matter what I find out about the unscrupulous things our govt does it always takes me back, especially when its goal would result in the loss of hundreds or thousands of American lives.

I made the thread after reading some of the posts people were putting up about the "truthers" and "conspiracies". I got the impression that some of these folks think that our govt is simply above killing Americans for their own purposes and wanted to shed some light for some folks or at least remind them of the truth.

I got banned for a week for calling TxInvestigator an asshole. It was worth it. He needed to hear it.

 

[Texas1911]

Interesting.

 

[TimberWolf7.62]

Gentlemen, I worked in the intelligence community for six years in the '90's and several times when we (civilian govt employees, military officers, and defense contractors) were discussing some course of action, someone questioned whether it would be legal or not. At NO TIME did someone then say "Oh, well, we can't do it, then!" The discussion instead turned to how the laws could be (mis)interpreted so that the action could conceivably be thought of as legal. Some of these justifications were as thin as a sheet of paper, but never - ever - did the action stop because of a legal issue.

Now I am not talking about killing people here or anything like that, but believe me, working for the govt is a real eye-opener. I thought I was pretty cynical and sophisticated when I started working for them; I quickly learned I wasn't.

 

[Clockwork]

In 1962 top members of our gov't (the Joint Chiefs of Staff in this case) proposed to falsely create justification for an invasion of Cuba that would have cost hundreds, if not thousands, of American soldiers, sailors, and marines lives in the ensuing fight. It was named Operation Northwoods and it proposed a series of false and staged attacks on Americans and our assets in order to invade Cuba. Fortunately McNamara, then Sec. of Defense, didnt go along with the plan so it never happened.

Hmm, sounds like something more recent... "Iraq was behind 9/11" comes to mind.

I don't know why this sort of thing would surprise you.

 

[KellyAsh]

Hmm, sounds like something more recent... "Iraq was behind 9/11" comes to mind.

I don't know why this sort of thing would surprise you.

To me, this was "new" even though it happened almost 50 years ago and thought it might be news to a few others. I also wanted some peoples recollections about the times during this event. Whether it was news then or if it was buried and come to light later on. I was also looking for what the publics general attitude towards it, if it was publicly announced.

I dont know that it surprised me as much as added another layer of disgust to the bullshit govts pull on their populations.

Also, Thank you to TimberWolf for sharing your firsthand experience.

 

[Texasjack]

Being a little paranoid about your government is a very good thing. If you don't see them doing something underhanded, then they are probably just doing a really good job of hiding what they are doing.

If your government is paranoid about YOU, then it's time to really, really worry.

(Hint: The current folks in Washington are very paranoid about you.)

BTW, all that stuff about government folks doing bad? It applies to all governments. And some of them were so bad that they actually made the history books with their activities.

 

[TimberWolf7.62]

I remembered another incident during my government service that y'all might find interesting.


I was working for one organization that was going to run a joint operation with another organization, another intel community agency. It was going to be run out of the other agency's facilities and I was going to be the sole representative in the command group from my organization.


The day before I was to go over there, late in the afternoon, my boss's boss called me into his office. His government service rank was equivalent to a 1-star general or higher, and I had never met him before (face to face, of course I knew who he was). He took about 15 minutes and used a lot of phrases like “keep your eyes open” and “keep an eye on them” and asked if I could find out what they were doing regarding some certain subjects. Then he gave me his direct, private phone number and asked me to call him when I got something he should know, and he said he knew he didn't have to remind me about operational security (the phones at all such agencies are subject to being taped at any and all times, and I would have to call him from another off-site phone).


So there you go, a senior member of one U.S. Government agency asked me to spy on another U.S. Government agency. Bizarre, huh? I had mixed feelings about it, but I did it. What else could I do?

 

[M. Sage]

I got banned for a week for calling TxInvestigator an asshole. It was worth it. He needed to hear it.

This is not a good way to avoid the ban rolls in the future.

 

[TxPhantom]

Just wait until the historians untangle this mess of crooks, tax dodgers, socialists, union thugs, and anti-Americans we have running our country today. That is, unless they stay in power and get to write the history books.

 

[KellyAsh]

Just wait until the historians untangle this mess of crooks, tax dodgers, socialists, union thugs, and anti-Americans we have running our country today. That is, unless they stay in power and get to write the history books.

Lets hope some justice finally prevails. But like they say, hope in one hand and poop in the other and see which one fills up first. If Bill Clinton can outright lie about his sexcapades without getting impeached and Geithner and the others can get away with their illegal activities after theyve openly admitted to them, I doubt theres much to be done about it except keep voting in the decent politicians and encourage them to take action against these criminals.

 

[Clockwork]

If Bill Clinton can outright lie about his sexcapades without getting impeached

Actually he... was... impeached...

 

[KellyAsh]

Actually he... was... impeached...

Technically you're right although he was acquitted and stayed in office around another 2 years...some impeachment. My point was made, he suffered no repercussions.

 

[Clockwork]

Technically you're right although he was acquitted and stayed in office around another 2 years...some impeachment. My point was made, he suffered no repercussions.

True enough, Bubba came out no worse for wear.

 

[TheDan]

If Bill Clinton can outright lie about his sexcapades...

I'm not sure why people focus on this. To me that seems like it should be a personal matter between Hillary and Bill and how she wants to deal with her cheating husband. There's a lot of other things that Clinton did that directly effected how the country operates. Why not talk about those instead? I agree that alot of folks in DC need to be sent to jail. Some of the things that are going on aren't just unethical, but illegal as well.

 

[jordanmills]

Gentlemen, I worked in the intelligence community for six years in the '90's and several times when we (civilian govt employees, military officers, and defense contractors) were discussing some course of action, someone questioned whether it would be legal or not. At NO TIME did someone then say "Oh, well, we can't do it, then!" The discussion instead turned to how the laws could be (mis)interpreted so that the action could conceivably be thought of as legal. Some of these justifications were as thin as a sheet of paper, but never - ever - did the action stop because of a legal issue.

Now I am not talking about killing people here or anything like that, but believe me, working for the govt is a real eye-opener. I thought I was pretty cynical and sophisticated when I started working for them; I quickly learned I wasn't.

I seem to be mistaken in my assumption that everyone knows that this is how it's done.

 

[ROGER4314]

You're kidding, right? You were surprised? Never read about the Bay of Pigs invasion? Gulf of Tonkin Resolution?

Over the years, I knew several men who worked black ops for our wonderful government.

One was issued silenced .45's to snuff anti Castro forces and to sneak into Cuba to bury weapons for counter Castro forces.

Another was recruited to go to Cambodia to eliminate opposition leaders at $2100/month which was a fortune in those days! He worked as a custodian and took the job to feed his family.

My other friend worked ops which were funded by smuggling and selling drugs. He worked with many men who were on the "MIA" list and disappeared to work black ops.

In each case, our leaders disavowed any knowledge of any of those activities. Would our leaders lie? Can a fat dog fart?

Flash