The treatment of animals in agriculture, and ag gag laws.

[Maverick44]

What are your thoughts on this?



Personally, I find this highly disturbing, for many reasons. The abuse that these animals are having to endure is absolutely unacceptable and should be criminal, and the idea that the government can prevent people from videoing and exposing these issues is disgusting. Now before anyone calls me a tree hugger or a vegan (thems fightin' words!), that is not the case at all. I eat meat, a lot of meat. I hunt and I fish, and I buy fresh meat from the store all the time just like most Americans. There's nothing wrong with eating meat. That said, I find it hard to believe that this kind of treatment could be seen as acceptable. Are they isolated incidents? Maybe, but if so, wouldn't ethical companies want to show off how well their animals are being treated instead of trying to silence people? Farming and ranching are not always pretty, but the kind of abuse shown in this video goes far beyond that in my opinion.

I'm usually against the overly aggressive animal rights activist/PETA types because they're usually wrong about stuff, but not this time. What was shown in that video was just plain, unnecessary abuse.

Also, I REALLY like this guy (John Stossel). He tries to be unbiased and give both sides of the argument, but he also has a low tolerance for BS and will tell someone exactly what he thinks they are right to their face (a parasite, a socialist, ect). We need more journalists like him.

 

[candcallen]

Stossel= good libertarian.
Animal abuse=bad
Animal rights Nazis= worse

 

[Dawico]

I am all for farms treating animals humanely but many of these activists are trespassing, lying about the abuse, and have even abused the animals themselves to create the videos.

Harrassment by activists is generally a bigger problem than what they are fighting.

 

[GoPappy]

100% agreement with this post.

There is no reason that animals on farms can’t be treated humanely. They are sentient beings. Their purpose may be to end up on someone’s table, but they can be treated humanely while on this earth.

What are your thoughts on this?



Personally, I find this highly disturbing, for many reasons. The abuse that these animals are having to endure is absolutely unacceptable and should be criminal, and the idea that the government can prevent people from videoing and exposing these issues is disgusting. Now before anyone calls me a tree hugger or a vegan (thems fightin' words!), that is not the case at all. I eat meat, a lot of meat. I hunt and I fish, and I buy fresh meat from the store all the time just like most Americans. There's nothing wrong with eating meat. That said, I find it hard to believe that this kind of treatment could be seen as acceptable. Are they isolated incidents? Maybe, but if so, wouldn't ethical companies want to show off how well their animals are being treated instead of trying to silence people? Farming and ranching are not always pretty, but the kind of abuse shown in this video goes far beyond that in my opinion.

I'm usually against the overly aggressive animal rights activist/PETA types because they're usually wrong about stuff, but not this time. What was shown in that video was just plain, unnecessary abuse.

Also, I REALLY like this guy (John Stossel). He tries to be unbiased and give both sides of the argument, but he also has a low tolerance for BS and will tell someone exactly what he thinks they are right to their face (a parasite, a socialist, ect). We need more journalists like him.

 

[candcallen]

They are sentient beings.

Umm, no they arent.




.

 

[Coiled]

Umm, no they arent.

Really? Then why do they react when branded, ear tagged or analy probed?

 

[Coiled]

Not gonna watch the vid this am, maybe later.

I like Stossel and the humane treatment of critters.

 

[Brains]

Really? Then why do they react when branded, ear tagged or analy probed?

Why does a frog leg, not attached to a frog, react when probed with wires connected to a battery?

The ability to react to stimuli doesn't necessarily mean a being is sentient. The frog example is going way to the opposite extreme obviously, but the concept of sentience among the animal kingdom is well debated.

 

[Maverick44]

Umm, no they arent.




.

I'm curious as to how you think they aren't sentient. They can feel pain, correct?

"Sentient

adjective

able to perceive or feel things."

You can argue that they aren't sapient, which is the ability to think and to reason, but they are most certainly sentient.

Sentient = the ability to feel

Sapient = the ability to reason





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[candcallen]

Really? Then why do they react when branded, ear tagged or analy probed?

Just a shot in the dark here but because it hurts.

Yes most all animals can feel pain and instinctively move away or not want to experience it and remember the experience if it happens again, but in regards to weather one animal is Sentient compared to another it means a self awareness or consciousness that's self aware and that's humans not other animals.

An interesting fact is not all humans are self aware because that part of ones consciousness can be damaged or lost due to illness injury or othe mechanism. They will still act like all other animals and not enjoy pain and demonstrate that just like animals.

We dont hunt self aware sentient beings. Nor should we farm or eat them.

Consider this Interesting ethical and evolutionary question;
Are animals other than humans sentient? That is possess a self aware consciousness? IMHO there may be some species that are on the cusp of clear self aware sentience, evolutionary speaking, with some individuals of the species who already are. They may even be there already as a species. Example certain great apes, elephants and certain whale species. Just a thought.

 

[candcallen]

I'm curious as to how you think they aren't sentient. They can feel pain, correct?

"Sentient

adjective

able to perceive or feel things."

You can argue that they aren't sapient, which is the ability to think and to reason, but they are most certainly sentient.

Sentient = the ability to feel

Sapient = the ability to reason





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I explained it above. When comparing an animal to humans sentient is self aware consciousness. At least that's why my public education mind remembers.

If I'm using the wrong term sorry.

ETA if I remember correctly the full definition of sentience or sentient life form adds self aware consciousness and reasoning to sensation and perception i.e. feel pain and respond etc . Again that which separates man from animal. So to me sentience always was only man and not animal.

Then again my education was free.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Is this the same free education that my school taxes are paying?

 

[GoPappy]

Umm, no they arent.

Umm, yes they are.

 

[Bithabus]

sentient
adjective
sen·tient | \ ˈsen(t)-sh(ē-)ənt , ˈsen-tē-ənt\
Definition of sentient


1: responsive to or conscious of sense impressions
2: AWARE
3: finely sensitive in perception or feeling

 

[avvidclif]

All I can say is if you never lived on a farm/ranch you are clueless. All you know is what you have been told or spoon fed on videos. Think about it, those animals are your livelihood, would you kill your livelihood.

 

[Younggun]

Just a shot in the dark here but because it hurts.

Yes most all animals can feel pain and instinctively move away or not want to experience it and remember the experience if it happens again, but in regards to weather one animal is Sentient compared to another it means a self awareness or consciousness that's self aware and that's humans not other animals.

An interesting fact is not all humans are self aware because that part of ones consciousness can be damaged or lost due to illness injury or othe mechanism. They will still act like all other animals and not enjoy pain and demonstrate that just like animals.

We dont hunt self aware sentient beings. Nor should we farm or eat them.

Consider this Interesting ethical and evolutionary question;
Are animals other than humans sentient? That is possess a self aware consciousness? IMHO there may be some species that are on the cusp of clear self aware sentience, evolutionary speaking, with some individuals of the species who already are. They may even be there already as a species. Example certain great apes, elephants and certain whale species. Just a thought.

Sounds like you’ve come up with a way to not feel bad about slaughtering cows by drawing an imaginary line.


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[V-Tach]

Well....is they or ain't they? I needs to know...........

I'm getting hungry for some dead animal......................

 

[Younggun]

Why does a frog leg, not attached to a frog, react when probed with wires connected to a battery?

The ability to react to stimuli doesn't necessarily mean a being is sentient. The frog example is going way to the opposite extreme obviously, but the concept of sentience among the animal kingdom is well debated.

That’s not a valid comparison because the stimuli isn’t operating naturally. A live jellyfish would be a much better example. It’s brainless.

A frog leg is not sentient. Neither is a cows leg or a humans leg.


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[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

Once again M44 and I are in agreement.

Dr. Temple Grandin has introduced many innovative/humane methods to raise cattle.

Because we're going to eat them doesn't mean animals can't be treated humanely.

In case you care to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about I'm qualified in that, I worked on ranches as a hired hand as a kid and 2 different dairy farms in my life.

None of the animals on those ranches and farms were mistreated or abused in any fashion.

It can be done without being a goody 2 shoes peta fanactic.

Like M44 I eat lots of meat.

I even like raw meat so no granola vegan, hippy dippy I'm not.

You stand still long ago, I might put you on the barby......

 

[Brains]

That’s not a valid comparison because the stimuli isn’t operating naturally. A live jellyfish would be a much better example. It’s brainless.

A frog leg is not sentient. Neither is a cows leg or a humans leg.

Good job, Cap't. Obvious. That was the point.