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  • CavCop

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    In this video I go over my SSP-91 Lone Eagle from Magnum Research. A unique and rare pistol made by John P Foote (he helped work on the SR-71 Blackbird engines, the MAC-10 machine pistol, M16 rifle improvements, the M242 25mm Bushmaster, and other machine guns). It has a simple cannon loaded breach, designed for centerfire rifle rounds (could be had in about any caliber). It balances well in the hand, but like most single shot target style pistols, not a lot of people wanted them vs higher capacity semi auto pistols.

    Target Sports
     

    Swedonia

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    I think the problem with the XP-100 was that Remington engineers' goal was simply to find a way to make a handgun out of their existing Model 600 rifle series -- and this at a time when hunting and target shooting beyond 50 yards with a handgun was still largely considered a stunt. The XP was revolutionary when it was introduced, chambered in .221 Fireball -- a varmint cartridge -- but the whole idea of a bolt-action pistol was so new that it would take years of hunting and silhouette shoots to provide guidance on how to get the ergonomics of a long-range hunting and target pistol right.
     

    benenglish

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    I'll watch the video when I get back to my desktop but I hope you took a little time to compare it to the almost identical versions sold by other companies. I consider the Lone Eagle distinctly superior to the Competitor CP-1, even though most people will have to look three times before they figure out it's a slightly different pistol on the same action.
     

    PinnedandRecessed

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    I'd give it serious thought if I crossed paths with an unmolested example that wasn't priced in the stratosphere. I've always thought it'd be a hoot for varmints.
    1685386411265.png
     

    benenglish

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    IIRC, the versions were the SSP 86, SSP 91, Lone Eagle, and, finally, the Competitor CP-1.

    Only the Lone Eagle had the separate cocking lever. That makes it far and away the best of the bunch. On the others, twisting the rear of the action not only opened it but also cocked the firing pin without much mechanical advantage. That meant that the force required to open the pistols was often ridiculously high. For my CP-1, I actually made a wrench so I could try to snap open the action. Without it, it would be impossible to open 40 times during a silhouette match; by the time you're halfway through, your hands are trembling so badly you can't hit squat.

    Recoil on the gun, all versions, is a pain. Because the grip is roughly in the middle and the weight is mostly at the rear, muzzle flip is massively increased over the same round in any rear-grip pistol. To shoot it successfully while standing, in any chambering that actually kicks, you have to hold it in a pure isosceles hold. That way when the pistol fires and the muzzle is instantly pointed straight up, the back of the pistol just drops between your wrists. Holding it one-handed is out of the question because of this and the fact that the things are just plain heavy.

    I bought a Competitor Arms CP-1 for Production class silhouette shooting. It seemed like a reasonable thing to do. 7.62x39 ammo was ridiculously cheap at the time so I could compete without reloading. The first match showed me different. I tried to shoot it one-handed in a freestyle position and had to DNF on the match after the first 10 rounds. The breech was violently impacting the forearm bone behind my wrist with every shot. The bruise was immediate and within an hour, it looked like I was hiding a small bird egg under my skin. I'm not even going to mention how loud the 7.62x39 is from a 10" barrel, the maximum allowed in Production class.

    In my particular case, ignition was terribly unreliable and it wasn't due to hard mil-surplus primers. The headspace was so excessive that if a round fired and the neck sealed against the chamber quickly enough to hold the case in place, the primers would back more than half-way out. If the neck expansion didn't keep the case stuck forward, it would slam to the rear of the action as the primer was backing out. That not only meant the shoulders were blowing forward but also that the partially backed-out primer would be violently re-seated into the primer pocket. Those primers got slammed back in so hard that they were totally flattened, making it look like the round was way over-pressure.

    If I had wanted to continue working with it, I could have. I could have reloaded it and treated it like a shoulder-blown-forward wildcat based on the 7.62x39. But the whole reason I bought it was because it was cheap to feed with ammo I didn't have to reload.

    Why not send it back to be fixed? The company went out of business.

    Before they went belly-up, though, I got endless amusement from their list of available chamberings. IIRC, it was 4 or 5 pages with three columns each listing a staggering array of chamberings. Basically, any cartridge you could think of they listed. I always wondered if anyone actually bought a 10-inch barrelled version in .257 Weatherby. That was listed as available and I think I could have loaded it with the right powder and bullet and made it the undisputed King of Muzzle Flash! That might have been a fun toy to show off with...or a good way to get tossed out of any indoor range. :)

    But I was never that interested. Any pistol that hard to open, no matter the chambering, was just no fun. It's stuck in the back of a closet somewhere around here and I have absolutely no motivation to ever find or shoot it again.

    You did the right thing getting a Lone Eagle. Of all the cannon-breech pistols made, they did the best.
     

    benenglish

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    My reasoning was because it's Fugly as sin and it wasn't cheap.
    When CDNN blew out the last of their stock after the pistol was discontinued, they were dirt cheap for about a minute. I should have jumped on one then; it would have been worth it. Before and since, though, they've always been priced higher than I think is reasonable.
     

    CavCop

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    IIRC, the versions were the SSP 86, SSP 91, Lone Eagle, and, finally, the Competitor CP-1.

    Only the Lone Eagle had the separate cocking lever. That makes it far and away the best of the bunch. On the others, twisting the rear of the action not only opened it but also cocked the firing pin without much mechanical advantage. That meant that the force required to open the pistols was often ridiculously high. For my CP-1, I actually made a wrench so I could try to snap open the action. Without it, it would be impossible to open 40 times during a silhouette match; by the time you're halfway through, your hands are trembling so badly you can't hit squat.

    Recoil on the gun, all versions, is a pain. Because the grip is roughly in the middle and the weight is mostly at the rear, muzzle flip is massively increased over the same round in any rear-grip pistol. To shoot it successfully while standing, in any chambering that actually kicks, you have to hold it in a pure isosceles hold. That way when the pistol fires and the muzzle is instantly pointed straight up, the back of the pistol just drops between your wrists. Holding it one-handed is out of the question because of this and the fact that the things are just plain heavy.

    I bought a Competitor Arms CP-1 for Production class silhouette shooting. It seemed like a reasonable thing to do. 7.62x39 ammo was ridiculously cheap at the time so I could compete without reloading. The first match showed me different. I tried to shoot it one-handed in a freestyle position and had to DNF on the match after the first 10 rounds. The breech was violently impacting the forearm bone behind my wrist with every shot. The bruise was immediate and within an hour, it looked like I was hiding a small bird egg under my skin. I'm not even going to mention how loud the 7.62x39 is from a 10" barrel, the maximum allowed in Production class.

    In my particular case, ignition was terribly unreliable and it wasn't due to hard mil-surplus primers. The headspace was so excessive that if a round fired and the neck sealed against the chamber quickly enough to hold the case in place, the primers would back more than half-way out. If the neck expansion didn't keep the case stuck forward, it would slam to the rear of the action as the primer was backing out. That not only meant the shoulders were blowing forward but also that the partially backed-out primer would be violently re-seated into the primer pocket. Those primers got slammed back in so hard that they were totally flattened, making it look like the round was way over-pressure.

    If I had wanted to continue working with it, I could have. I could have reloaded it and treated it like a shoulder-blown-forward wildcat based on the 7.62x39. But the whole reason I bought it was because it was cheap to feed with ammo I didn't have to reload.

    Why not send it back to be fixed? The company went out of business.

    Before they went belly-up, though, I got endless amusement from their list of available chamberings. IIRC, it was 4 or 5 pages with three columns each listing a staggering array of chamberings. Basically, any cartridge you could think of they listed. I always wondered if anyone actually bought a 10-inch barrelled version in .257 Weatherby. That was listed as available and I think I could have loaded it with the right powder and bullet and made it the undisputed King of Muzzle Flash! That might have been a fun toy to show off with...or a good way to get tossed out of any indoor range. :)

    But I was never that interested. Any pistol that hard to open, no matter the chambering, was just no fun. It's stuck in the back of a closet somewhere around here and I have absolutely no motivation to ever find or shoot it again.

    You did the right thing getting a Lone Eagle. Of all the cannon-breech pistols made, they did the best.

    The SSP’s made by Ordnance Research (86/91) I believe hade the forward cocking lever. Only the Competitor I think used the breach to cock it.

    Not sure how the Competitor worked, but having taken my Lone Eagle apart, the left side breach screw adjusts the ejector, and the right side adjusts the unlocking/stiffness.

    When I took mine apart, it was interesting how the rear unscrewed. First time I put it back together the center piece you can twist (vs the outside area) was like a puzzle to put back in.

    I do wish I got one of the muzzle breaks. It’s an odd size thread and Magnum Research had a neat one that matched up well.
     

    benenglish

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    The SSP’s made by Ordnance Research (86/91) I believe hade the forward cocking lever.
    I hope you're right. I was typing out of memory, only.
    Only the Competitor I think used the breach to cock it.
    And that one design decision was enough for me to say it was crap. There are lots of other reasons but that single one was enough. It's just not fun to shoot a firearm that's so physically difficult to operate for every single shot.
     

    CavCop

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    I hope you're right. I was typing out of memory, only.

    And that one design decision was enough for me to say it was crap. There are lots of other reasons but that single one was enough. It's just not fun to shoot a firearm that's so physically difficult to operate for every single shot.

    I wonder if it could be adjusted. I know some people had Lone Eagles that were either to tight or ejected to soft or to hard…

    Used to be you removed the set screws then did 1/4 turn adjustments on the actual actuator screws and tested, then put the set screw back in and set it.
     

    benenglish

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    Passed on too many of these and I shouldn't have.

    Even though the screenshot says that's a Mk. 40, it's not. It's a mid- to late-production Wichita Silhouette pistol with the original, all steel action. The Mk. 40 used an aluminum action with a steel insert making it less expensive than the original. Every Mk. 40 I've ever seen had the action "in the white" and I've never seen one that looked like blued steel the way that picture looks.

    The MK. 40 also had a simplified rear sight, an open design that sat fully on top of the action. The picture shows the better sight of the original pistols. The front sight of the Mk. 40 was different, too, being mounted on a ramp instead of dovetailed directly into the barrel.

    Also, on the Mk. 40, the diameter of the action didn't match the barrel, making the transition between the two easy to see. On the original, more expensive actions, it was hard to tell where the action stopped and the barrel started; diameters were the same and the fit was always perfect.

    The two actions are functionally the same and equally accurate. But if you've held both you'll want the original. It's just nicer. Whichever you get, you'll love it.

    One thing, though, is that since it's all steel, it's also easier to find a gunsmith who's willing to rebarrel the original actions, if that's something you ever want. I've been considering sending mine to Pacnor to get them to match the original contour in a different chambering. I'd like to try the 6BR instead of my current .308 Win. and Pacnor is one of the few barrel makers who advertises they will match an original contour when installing a new barrel. But this is probably another example of a project that I'll never get around to doing. :)

    Here's a close up of a Mk. 40 action.

    mk40.jpg
     

    1911'S 4 Me

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    Lonesome Dove

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    Every Witchita and Weatherby CFP I came across were 308s something I never wanted to shoot in a hand Canon. I had a 300 Savage T/C barrel made and it was potent enough. The 35 rem actually seemed tamer.
     

    benenglish

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    wichita mk40,13 barrel,7mm ihmsa,with dies & brass 60 day layaway ok with 1/3rd down.
    wichita mk40,13" barrel,7mm ihmsa,with dies & brass 60 day layaway ok with 1/3rd down.
    GI#: 100175538
    These are very rare,super accurate long distance single shot bolt action pistols,the next step up from the Remington XP100 pistols,and will shoot 40x40 all day long,in the right hands,at 660 feet.this ...Click for more info
    Seller: bob simpson ffl dealer
    Area Code: 727
    $1,295.00
    I wonder how many hands that pistol has gone through. I've seen those same pictures of that lime green (extremely uncommon) Mk. 40 on multiple sites offering it for sale. Either it's getting re-sold repeatedly or some bad guys are running scams. I'm pretty sure it's the latter.
     
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