The “NEW” Ammo

[leVieux]

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This is reportedly a revolutionary very new high tech ammo. My older Son (Not the ATF Guy) is part-owner of an investment group which recently bought/merged with TV Ammo.

Almost everything about it is new, except primer & powder.

The “ceramic/plastic” cases are more precise, much lighter, non-damaging, and are reportedly reloadable. The bullets are a mix of alloys.

I hear that worldwide governments have lined-up to buy. Loadings currently are 5.56 & .308.

As I’m no ammo expert, and have seen only one sample round, unfired, here is a review: https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/true-velocitys-new-polymer-cased-ammunition/247607

I’m sure we’ll all see soon.

leVieux
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[mroper]

I have seen commercials for it. Has anyone seen it in stores or tried it, I wonder what the price point is

 

[TX oddball]

For some reason, it reminds me of this-

 

[leVieux]

I have seen commercials for it. Has anyone seen it in stores or tried it, I wonder what the price point is

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I asked but got no reply.

I was told only that it would be “competitive”.

leVieux
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[RankAmateur]

Yeah, $3.50/round for 168 gr SMK ammo... Nope.

But it's new... Nope.

But it's cool... Nope.

Nope.

 

[jason237m]

Looks very interesting, but I also fear the price point. When I see "mix of alloys" in the description what I assume is "expensive". I hope I'm wrong.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/true-velocitys-new-polymer-cased-ammunition/247607…

Beckstrand’s article will be five years old month after next.

Cabela’s sells it for $70/box.

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/true-velocity-polymer-cased-ammo-with-nosler-custom-competition-bullet

TV Ammo, the parent company is loaded with debt and joined an SPAC last fall as a vehicle to raise more money before launching an IPO. SPAC IPOs are dead now since analysts stopped believing marked-to-make believe company values in light of SVB’s implosion and the Fed’s high rate environment doesn’t allow for 10x+ ROIs on leveraged IPOs.

In this instance, TV Ammo’s SPAC was valuing them at $1.2B assuming they were the shoe-in for DoDs next gen squad weapon system (NGSW).

Ammunition tech firm TV Ammo to go public in $1.2 billion blank-check deal

Ammunition technology company TV Ammo Inc will merge with blank-check firm Breeze Holdings Acquisition Corp in a deal that values the combined entity at $1.21 billion, the companies said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1817640/000121390022068368/ea167835-425_breezehold.htm

That contract went to Winchester and now the company is back looking for .gov contracts to back up their claim of $1.2B in value.

 

[Sam Colt]

 

[leVieux]

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Correct.

Politics from corrupt DoD Warmongers is no surprise.

I withheld from being an early investor.

Still, if claims are accurate; which is so-far not seriously challenged, it is only a matter of time.

I’m still watching this, may buy some soon.

leVieux
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[popper]

Actually old news.

 

[leVieux]

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BTW, T&J, Thanks for an intelligent response !

leVieux
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[Axxe55]

not exactly new, ammo makers have been experimenting with plastic or non- metallic cases for a few decades now

 

[popper]

Company showcased this stuff several yrs ago.

 

[outdare]

Yes, but are the cases and bullets biodegradable to fit the green initiative from the climate weenies? (Sarcasm)

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

 

[RankAmateur]

Why?

For the military, reduced weight and reduced heat transfer are relevant. Cost has no impact on individual military personnel pulling the trigger, so the increased cost is only really relevant to us taxpayers. The lack of reloadability with standard equipment is touted as preventing an enemy from collecting brass. The "flowability" of the polymer is touted as allowing for better conformation to the rifle's chamber, leading to better seal formation and adaptability to variation in the chambers of various rifles. That's during firing, but one reviewer was unable to chamber the TV round in a rifle with a deliberately undersized tight chamber. Brass can be crushed into such chambers during bolt closure, which is a strategy used by some shooters. Other than the primary claims of weight savings and reduced heat transfer, the primary claim to fame for this ammo is "consistency". This is shown by velocity SDs in the single digits for test samples.

The same reviewers write about group sizes produced with this ammo, but these reviewers consistently make these claims using factory rifles, and even hunting rifles. Does any hunter shooting .308 Win with SMK or Nosler bullets at game standing 200 yds (or less) away really care about SDs of 9 vs 18 FPS? Especially with light hunting rifles, I'm going to submit that those differences in that setting are imperceptible. So, the tight SD is ONLY relevant for minimizing vertical at long range, and nobody is hunting at over 600 yds with a .308 Win. (Yes, TV is producing/will be producing 6.8 and 338, and 50 BMG, but the discussion there will be similar as for the 308. TV is ALSO producing 5.56, so the discussion is only made MORE relevant with that round). The only non-military setting where that consistency is relevant is in competition.

Serious competitors don't generally use factory ammo, and the vast majority of successful competitors hand load. That's because you not only seeking consistency, you also need to tune your ammo to your specific rifle. Tuning involves selection of brass, brass size/dimensions, primer, powder, powder charge, bullet, neck tension, and seating depth. For competitors, TV ammo is consistent ammo that MIGHT be great in a particular rifle, but it ain't optimized, and can't be optimized for a rifle, so will NOT produce optimal results (except in the rare random case). In addition to that failure, handloaders amortize the cost of expensive premium brass by reloading it, which is not currently an option with TV. So, for the competitive shooter, this is sub optimum and disposable ammo at inflated retail cost. Even if you treat premium brass as disposable (you only use virgin brass and don't reload), you can produce ammo optimized to YOUR rife with premium bullets (Berger or even hand-swaged custom), benchrest-grade primers, etc. and SDs half that of TV at about half the cost of TV.

So, again, other than for the military, why? For my thinking, again nope.

 

[benenglish]

I recently watched a YT test of the ammo where they pointed out that the makers specify it should not be used in any rifle with a fluted chamber. Naturally, they tried it and got head separations every time.

I'm kinda skittish about ammo labeled as a particular chambering that doesn't work in large numbers of firearms in that chambering.

Just sort of a general principle of mine, I guess.

Serious competitors don't generally use factory ammo,

That's entirely dependent on the game being shot. Some shooting sports are almost universally shot with factory ammo.

Nevertheless, your conclusion...

So, again, other than for the military, why? For my thinking, again nope.

...is the same as I've reached.

I'm hoping someone will change my mind. When someone starts selling plastic 9mm ball for $0.05/rd, I will certainly buy a case to test.

 

[seeker_two]

Maybe not that great....

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

I read a lengthy article regarding this ammo quite some time ago.

At the time the article came out, the manufacturer claimed they were 'almost ready' to bring it to market.

Then, they seemed to 'vanish' without another word...years went by and 'now' they're once again claiming the cost to the consumer will be 'competitive'...?

Hhhmmm....

 

[Havok1]

I heard about this a while back but didn’t know it ever came to market. If it’s more expensive then they can keep it.

 

[TheMailMan]

I have seen commercials for it. Has anyone seen it in stores or tried it, I wonder what the price point is

Around $3 per from what I have seen.