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  • Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
    Rating - 100%
    36   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    17,700
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    Mustang Ridge
    Did you not read my above comments. I use capital letters for SMALL and I guess I should have use them for NOT MARKED LAW ENFORCEMENT OR POLICE-STRENGTH PEPPER SPRAY.


    Oh..and you DID NOT quote 46.01 (14) in its entirety.
    You have been challenged to link to where the PC says this. You have pulled some words out of your ass and bloviated ad nauseam, but have not linked to anything in the PC that states what you are claiming. Several people at this point have cut and pasted the PC for you, but for whatever reason you are clinging to the scrotum of your halfwit LTC instructor as if God himself was whispering in his ear.

    Just stop.
    Lynx Defense
     

    popsgarland

    MEMBER
    Lifetime Member
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    1   0   0
    Aug 24, 2011
    24,400
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    DFW area
    You have been challenged to link to where the PC says this. You have pulled some words out of your ass and bloviated ad nauseam, but have not linked to anything in the PC that states what you are claiming. Several people at this point have cut and pasted the PC for you, but for whatever reason you are clinging to the scrotum of your halfwit LTC instructor as if God himself was whispering in his ear.

    Just stop.


    I gave you the Texas Penal Code. you even, tried, to quote it and screwed that up.

    Maybe you should find some toddler and ask them how to google Texas Penal Code 46.01 (14) and then fine a 4 year old to read it for you.

    Your can't even comprehend or understand what you tried to read in the Texas Penal Code.

    You even, tried, to quote the 46.01 (14), so that tells me YOU found it and read it but didn't understand it.

    I'm out.
     

    Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
    Rating - 100%
    36   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    17,700
    96
    Mustang Ridge
    I gave you the Texas Penal Code. you even, tried, to quote it and screwed that up.

    Maybe you should find some toddler and ask them how to google Texas Penal Code 46.01 (14) and then fine a 4 year old to read it for you.

    Your can't even comprehend or understand what you tried to read in the Texas Penal Code.

    You even, tried, to quote the 46.01 (14), so that tells me YOU found it and read it but didn't understand it.

    I'm out.
    Well, someone is challenged here. Please show us where in the PC is says anything regarding weight and LE only marking on the container.

    You can’t because that language is not in the PC.

    You are clinging to the lie you spouted like a life preserver.

    If you are this addled, you should consider voluntarily turning your LTC back to the DPS and get a trusted family member to take possession of your firearms so you can not hurt yourself or others.

    If I ever had a LTC student that showed the incredible lack of good judgement you have shown in the face of solid facts, I would gladly, with zero reservations, flag you for further investigation before issuance of a LTC.( as is required by law)
     

    cycleguy2300

    TGT Addict
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    9   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
    6,767
    96
    Austin, Texas
    This is word for word of the below Penal code you requested.

    Texas Penal Code Section 46.01 9140 deems it legal for an individual to possess a small, commercially-sold container of pepper spray for personal self-defense. This is generally interpreted to mean that a person is allowed to carry one of the small, "key-chain" type of pepper sprays which are marketed and sold for self-defense purposes.

    Texas law defines any chemical dispensing device, which is not small, or commercially-made for personal defense purposes, as a restricted weapon.

    Here again, you need to read ALL of the law, not just a small part of it.

    I happen to be pretty well versed in Texas Penal and Traffic Codes, and the associated case law.

    You are adding your own definitions where the penal code leaves it open for articulation. "key-chain" sized is not part of penal code, and adding silly restrictions is just that, silly.

    Someone could carry a mk-9 OC for all I care. Is it small? Well it sure isn'ct all that big, I mean it will fit in a purse and #RIOTS so I get having one for personal protection. Penal code leaves it open to articulation so YOU have the freedom to carry what YOU need for YOUR personal protection.

    Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk
     

    cycleguy2300

    TGT Addict
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    9   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
    6,767
    96
    Austin, Texas
    Did you not read my above comments. I use capital letters for SMALL and I guess I should have use them for NOT MARKED LAW ENFORCEMENT OR POLICE-STRENGTH PEPPER SPRAY.


    Oh..and you DID NOT quote 46.01 (14) in its entirety.
    There is as much force of law behind OC marked FOR LE ONLY as there is for 20rnd Ruger mags so marked...

    Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk
     

    Nightwatch

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 9, 2014
    641
    46
    That's right...blade length, not type of knife.

    Hoji, you know, somebody may be quoting from an older definition of PC 46.01 (14)
    The one in the LTC handbook (Dec 2019)) matches the TX site here https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/pdf/PE.46.pdf...and it was last amended Sept 2019. He is NOT quoting the law word for word.

    It takes some effort keepin' up. With the shutdowns, I ordered my LTC handbooks and called the State every month...took 5 mo. to get them. Keeping up with the changes is more important than any instructor, lawyer's answer, or even some internet sources that "quote" the law. We need to be readin' the same copy doin' as the judge will be judgin'...I've found MANY lawyers' websites YEARS behind in what they claim about Texas weapons laws.

    I don't b'lieve NOBODY less'n they show me in the BOOK. I've had cops, deputies, and instructors make honest mistakes that could get someone who follows their 'pinion into trouble...or keep them from excercising their rights. Glad we have these little discussions...they take us back to square one sometimes.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    That's right...blade length, not type of knife.

    Hoji, you know, somebody may be quoting from an older definition of PC 46.01 (14)
    The one in the LTC handbook (Dec 2019)) matches the TX site here https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/pdf/PE.46.pdf...and it was last amended Sept 2019. He is NOT quoting the law word for word.

    It takes some effort keepin' up. With the shutdowns, I ordered my LTC handbooks and called the State every month...took 5 mo. to get them. Keeping up with the changes is more important than any instructor, lawyer's answer, or even some internet sources that "quote" the law. We need to be readin' the same copy doin' as the judge will be judgin'...I've found MANY lawyers' websites YEARS behind in what they claim about Texas weapons laws.

    I don't b'lieve NOBODY less'n they show me in the BOOK. I've had cops, deputies, and instructors make honest mistakes that could get someone who follows their 'pinion into trouble...or keep them from excercising their rights. Glad we have these little discussions...they take us back to square one sometimes.

    To add my input, the current state statutes are the only statutes that matter in a court of law. If a trainer, or instructor is using outdated information or statutes, they are doing a huge disservice to their students or clients. BUT, it is still the responsibility of the person carrying to know the current statutes as they apply to them. Not the instructor or trainer.

    Personally, any instructor or trainer that makes statements about legalities and that can't or won't show students the current statutes that back up his statements, is one I'd be leery of trusting, with anything they were trying to teach.

    Excellent post @Nightwatch
     

    Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
    Rating - 100%
    36   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    17,700
    96
    Mustang Ridge
    That's right...blade length, not type of knife.

    Hoji, you know, somebody may be quoting from an older definition of PC 46.01 (14)
    The one in the LTC handbook (Dec 2019)) matches the TX site here https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/pdf/PE.46.pdf...and it was last amended Sept 2019. He is NOT quoting the law word for word.

    It takes some effort keepin' up. With the shutdowns, I ordered my LTC handbooks and called the State every month...took 5 mo. to get them. Keeping up with the changes is more important than any instructor, lawyer's answer, or even some internet sources that "quote" the law. We need to be readin' the same copy doin' as the judge will be judgin'...I've found MANY lawyers' websites YEARS behind in what they claim about Texas weapons laws.

    I don't b'lieve NOBODY less'n they show me in the BOOK. I've had cops, deputies, and instructors make honest mistakes that could get someone who follows their 'pinion into trouble...or keep them from excercising their rights. Glad we have these little discussions...they take us back to square one sometimes.
    Your link is bad, but I know what you are saying.
    The thing is, in the almost 30 years I have been in Texas , the verbiage he cites has never been in the PC, and I do not believe it ever was.
    He is repeating gun shop commando bullshit as if it were canon, even when given the actual facts.

    Ignorance can be fixed, stupidity on the other hand is usually a permanent condition.
     

    Sasquatch

    TGT Addict
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    3   0   0
    Apr 20, 2020
    6,590
    96
    Magnolia
    Care to quote where "small" is defined?
    Or where the allowed "strength" is described?

    The penal code doesn't contain either. I buy the EXACT same size and strength (sometimes even stronger) OC spray I carry on duty for my wife and extended family.

    Why people want so badly to invent restrictions and make things more complicated than they are is beyond me.

    The only thing in PC is "small for personal use" i.e. not the crowd control fire extinguisher sized sprays, unless you articulate to me, through my carefully composed and leading questions, that you the OC wasn't "big" and you wanted it for personal protection from crowds, I mean there has been some riots lately...

    Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

    I'd consider anything smaller than the hose-trucks Israel uses to be "small" - if its man-portable, its small. If a dude wanted a backpack tank full of OC / Mace / CS, with a battery powered Ghostbusters style spray wand - more power to him. Protection from crowds half a block away!
     

    cycleguy2300

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
    6,767
    96
    Austin, Texas
    I'd consider anything smaller than the hose-trucks Israel uses to be "small" - if its man-portable, its small. If a dude wanted a backpack tank full of OC / Mace / CS, with a battery powered Ghostbusters style spray wand - more power to him. Protection from crowds half a block away!
    My thought is if its not big its small (maybe with a personal exception...) like you say, a firetruck is small compared to to a train tank car...

    The only time I could imagine hemming someone up for carrying OC is if they use it in a robbery or assault. Which really was the intent and goal of that law, to provide a means of prosecution for someone misusing a tool, which is an approach I rather like.

    Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk
     

    Nightwatch

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 9, 2014
    641
    46
    The attitude would weigh heavier on how I chose to enforce the letter of the law. I sent a lot of folks home with a friendly warning because their coat flew up...because their attitude/demeanor helped me realize they were no problem to anyone. I HOPE most LEOS would have and excercise trhat much descretion.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,021
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    The attitude would weigh heavier on how I chose to enforce the letter of the law. I sent a lot of folks home with a friendly warning because their coat flew up...because their attitude/demeanor helped me realize they were no problem to anyone. I HOPE most LEOS would have and excercise trhat much descretion.

    And many of us civilians thank you and appreciate that too.
     

    satx78247

    Member, Emeritus
    Emeritus - "Texas Proud"
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jun 23, 2014
    8,479
    96
    78208
    Your right, to a point.

    Texas Penal Code 46.01 (14). The law says "a SMALL chemical dispenser, which is carried on a key chain (under 4 oz and NOT marked law enforcement or police-strength pepper spray."

    Now, you can have law enforcement grade and military grade pepper spray-gel.

    Maybe you need to read the entire law and not just a small portion of it.

    popsgarland,

    IF I felt a need for a chemical spray, (I DON'T, as I always carry a concealed handgun & an excellent blade.), it would NOT be "pepper spray" but rather I would have my dear friend Roy (who most of my friends here have heard from as the Pastor of our church's northern-most mission in AK) buy/send me a can or 2 of BEAR STOP.
    (That stuff was developed for AK Game Wardens, to deal with angry/hungry bears & as far as I can find out is NOT sold in the "Lower 48".)


    I have NO idea what is IN that can but it SUDDENLY STOPS 2-footed & 4-footed predators in their tracks & sends them FLEEING in pain/panic. - Works WELL on human predators, too.

    yours, satx
     
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