Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick says Senate currently lacks the votes to pass permitless carry

[Axxe55]

I contend he the average LTC holder shoots 200 rds per year or less

Just curious as to where, or what you are basing that from?

I'd like to see that data that supports that statement.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Just in from TSRA:

Greetings!


House Bill 1927 by Representative Matt Schaefer was sponsored in the Senate hearing yesterday by Chairman Charles Schwertner. The hearing was nearly 11 hours long, by my watch, and in the end, the bill passed out of committee unamended.

I expect we will see amendments proposed when and if it gets to the floor.

Now the real work begins!

We need 18 Senators to simply bring the bill to the floor for discussion. It isn't important which party they are- but we need those votes just to get it there. For us, this is a purple issue, as is the rest of the Constitution.

Then we need 16 Senators to vote for the bill.

Please call AND email your Senator and let them know you are in full support of this bill and that you would like their support on it as well! You can use the "Who Represents Me " button at the bottom of this email to find out who is your Senator is, if you don't know. If you know they are in support I need you to thank them--those are always great calls to make and they are glad to get them.

If you have called before but not emailed, go ahead and do that. If you emailed but didn't call, please do that.

*If* you called before and they were non-committal, there is no harm in politely asking if they have clarified their position, yet- now that the bill is out of committee.

THEN, I need you to call Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick's office and share with him your support for this bill. (512) 463-0001 is the number to call. Also, you can send your written comments at this link https://www.ltgov.texas.gov/contact/contact-general/

Our Senate needs to know that you care about this issue and you are watching. Be polite of course, but absolutely pick up the phone and follow up with an email.

In order to get this bill to the floor, I need all of our supporters to do this as soon as you can.

If you would care to see my testimony on the bill from yesterday, here it is.

Hit reply if you want to get involved and need help.

Thank you!!!!!!

 

[Axxe55]

Excellent news @toddnjoyce !

Yes, we can't just get lax now.

 

[Haystack]

I see both sides of this issue. On the one hand, the Constitution declares that American citizens have the right to keep and bear arms. And no law should infringe upon that right. On the other hand, when a LEO see's my LTC they always relax. Why, because they know I've been run through a rigorous background check and that I am not a threat to them.

I can completely understand why LEO's want to know that anybody carrying a sidearm id not a felon, or a threat. I can also completely understand why some wish that we didn't have to prove ourselves worthy to legally carry a gun.

The fee for getting an LTC has already been dropped to an affordable level. I do not see it as a hardship. And honestly, I also take comfort in knowing that anyone I see with a gun (whether concealed or open carried) is almost certain to have been through the background checks and is not a threat to anyone.

That being said, having to pay a fee for exercising a right guaranteed to me by the Constitution is somewhat insulting. So, I refuse to cast dispersion against anyone who is on either side of this argument.

 

[Sam Colt]

Are you seriously saying that everyone who is carrying a firearm today has an LTC? If not, how does an LEO who sees someone carrying a firearm on the street today know that person has an LTC and/or is not a risk?

Maybe it's time to mandate LTC sashes.

 

[Axxe55]

I see both sides of this issue. On the one hand, the Constitution declares that American citizens have the right to keep and bear arms. And no law should infringe upon that right. On the other hand, when a LEO see's my LTC they always relax. Why, because they know I've been run through a rigorous background check and that I am not a threat to them.

I can completely understand why LEO's want to know that anybody carrying a sidearm id not a felon, or a threat. I can also completely understand why some wish that we didn't have to prove ourselves worthy to legally carry a gun.

The fee for getting an LTC has already been dropped to an affordable level. I do not see it as a hardship. And honestly, I also take comfort in knowing that anyone I see with a gun (whether concealed or open carried) is almost certain to have been through the background checks and is not a threat to anyone.

That being said, having to pay a fee for exercising a right guaranteed to me by the Constitution is somewhat insulting. So, I refuse to cast dispersion against anyone who is on either side of this argument.

Just because someone passes a class to get a LTC permit, proves exactly nothing. Just because that person passed a rigorous background check, proves exactly nothing. I'd like you to prove to me how that is. Also, how can you prove that just because a person has a LTC permit, can't be a threat?

I think any LE officer that relaxes to the point of complacency, just because the person he interacted with, because they had a LTC permit is an idiot.

Anyone having to pay any fees or taxes to exercise a right, is an infringement and a hardship. And exactly what do you determine as being affordable? Based on what criteria?

I know. All that I believe in the 2nd Amendment, BUT.......

 

[Cob]

From the 30 or so people I know that have the tlc Most of them do not go practice

 

[Axxe55]

From the 30 or so people I know that have the tlc Most of them do not go practice

Wow. And you really think that 30 people is an accurate representative number to make such a statement?

How many people in the state of Texas have LTC permits?

 

[Jeep0516]

Just in from TSRA:

Greetings!


House Bill 1927 by Representative Matt Schaefer was sponsored in the Senate hearing yesterday by Chairman Charles Schwertner. The hearing was nearly 11 hours long, by my watch, and in the end, the bill passed out of committee unamended.

I expect we will see amendments proposed when and if it gets to the floor.

Now the real work begins!

We need 18 Senators to simply bring the bill to the floor for discussion. It isn't important which party they are- but we need those votes just to get it there. For us, this is a purple issue, as is the rest of the Constitution.

Then we need 16 Senators to vote for the bill.

Please call AND email your Senator and let them know you are in full support of this bill and that you would like their support on it as well! You can use the "Who Represents Me " button at the bottom of this email to find out who is your Senator is, if you don't know. If you know they are in support I need you to thank them--those are always great calls to make and they are glad to get them.

If you have called before but not emailed, go ahead and do that. If you emailed but didn't call, please do that.

*If* you called before and they were non-committal, there is no harm in politely asking if they have clarified their position, yet- now that the bill is out of committee.

THEN, I need you to call Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick's office and share with him your support for this bill. (512) 463-0001 is the number to call. Also, you can send your written comments at this link https://www.ltgov.texas.gov/contact/contact-general/

Our Senate needs to know that you care about this issue and you are watching. Be polite of course, but absolutely pick up the phone and follow up with an email.

In order to get this bill to the floor, I need all of our supporters to do this as soon as you can.

If you would care to see my testimony on the bill from yesterday, here it is.

Hit reply if you want to get involved and need help.

Thank you!!!!!!

Just called Patrick’s office, in addition to several emails these past weeks, and informed them how important passing 1927 is to me and my family and our support of all future Republican races will depend on it. (Luckily, my SS is Angela Paxton who is already on board.)

 

[Armybrat]

I contend he the average LTC holder shoots 200 rds per year or less

Most of the cops on my nephew’s force only shot once a year to requalify.
They all were issued a box of ammo every month to practice with, but very few did.
My nephew (now retired) did bbq catering as a sideline, so he traded a bbq sandwich for a box of .40 caliber ammo with his colleagues.
He has a LOT of .40 caliber..... many cases still, even after shooting up thousands of rounds out onhis rural land over the years.

 

[45tex]

Back in the bronze age when I went to academy we were taught that 83% of all LE fired rounds missed their intended targets.
Since the the wonder 9 has taken over as the sidearm of choice, I believe that 83% has increased. When 16 rounds is not enough I think many more rounds are going God knows where,
I was taught that a good rule of thumb was "2 shots and evaluate."
3 to 5 was the average round count for a gunfight. Today that's the number of reloads
My experience was that most peace officers were not gun enthusiasts. They carried and practiced as required. I've seen officers that did not understand why their new Glock 40s would not fire 9mm very well during qualification.
I have no great trust in todays LE officers gun handling ability. Or anybody but myself, and thats why I bring my own.

 

[Mike_from_Texas]

Hinojosa. But the thing is, Hinojosa was making some good arguments for the bill.

Edit:
Seems both Lucio and Hinojosa voted Nay, Lucio was absent.

Actually Lucio was present and voted no. Hinojosa was not there to vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Axxe55]

Personally, I think some are making some broad generalizations that I think are inaccurate.

I believe just from my own experiences and observations, that among LE and civilians, the spectrum probably ranges to both extremes. There are LE officers that only shoot as they need, as to qualify to carry a firearm, just as there are civilians that buy a gun for self defense, shoot a few rounds, and then never shoot it again. Just as there are civilians that shoot many, many rounds for recreation, sporting and competition, so do some LE officers do as well.

So to say that LE officers shoot more than the average civilian, or vice versa, IMO would be totally incorrect. In years past, I have probably shot more rounds than either the average civilian or the average LE officer!

 

[rotor]

Personally, I think some are making some broad generalizations that I think are inaccurate.

I believe just from my own experiences and observations, that among LE and civilians, the spectrum probably ranges to both extremes. There are LE officers that only shoot as they need, as to qualify to carry a firearm, just as there are civilians that buy a gun for self defense, shoot a few rounds, and then never shoot it again. Just as there are civilians that shoot many, many rounds for recreation, sporting and competition, so do some LE officers do as well.

So to say that LE officers shoot more than the average civilian, or vice versa, IMO would be totally incorrect. In years past, I have probably shot more rounds than either the average civilian or the average LE officer!

I think you are correct and I am guilty too. I have a safe full of guns that I never shoot. I have a few guns that I shoot perhaps once a month. I learned to shoot 66 years ago and don't feel that I have to shoot 200 rounds a week to stay current. I think most gun owners don't shoot very often. That's okay though, I don't ride a bike very often either but still know how. I probably spend more time teaching than shooting my collection.

 

[Axxe55]

I think you are correct and I am guilty too. I have a safe full of guns that I never shoot. I have a few guns that I shoot perhaps once a month. I learned to shoot 66 years ago and don't feel that I have to shoot 200 rounds a week to stay current. I think most gun owners don't shoot very often. That's okay though, I don't ride a bike very often either but still know how. I probably spend more time teaching than shooting my collection.

I think many times we make broad generalizations based on our own personal perceptions of how we view things, and they may not always be accurate or correct. I am just as guilty, so I used the word we, to include myself. I have to back and re-evaluate things from time to time to see if I'm just making a broad generalization or a more informed opinion of things.

 

[oldag]

Just because someone passes a class to get a LTC permit, proves exactly nothing. Just because that person passed a rigorous background check, proves exactly nothing. I'd like you to prove to me how that is. Also, how can you prove that just because a person has a LTC permit, can't be a threat?

I think any LE officer that relaxes to the point of complacency, just because the person he interacted with, because they had a LTC permit is an idiot.

Anyone having to pay any fees or taxes to exercise a right, is an infringement and a hardship. And exactly what do you determine as being affordable? Based on what criteria?

I know. All that I believe in the 2nd Amendment, BUT.......

Let's not go overboard here.

First, I support constitutional carry. Period.

I must say that every LEO that has pulled me over since I got my CHL has relaxed upon hearing I had a CHL. Why? The rate of crime for CHL holders is lower than the rate of crime for LEO's. Maybe they should not relax, but they do. At least every one I have encountered.

But LEO's have no way of knowing when they first see someone carrying whether or not that person has a CHL. So this argument is a false canard. And most all criminals will still carry concealed, because they do not want to draw attention.

Law abiding citizens should not need anyone's permission to carry.

 

[benenglish]

I must say that every LEO that has pulled me over since I got my CHL has relaxed upon hearing I had a CHL.

Another reason to thank God you're in Texas. I've seen some videos of traffic stops in the northeast (one in Ohio stands out in my memory) where the LEO absolutely freaked out when they were handed a carry permit and realized the driver was armed.

 

[toddnjoyce]

...But LEO's have no way of knowing when they first see someone carrying whether or not that person has a CHL. So this argument is a false canard....

Pulling the thread, not arguing here; you’re inadvertently helping make a point I made yesterday re: LE & LE Org’s testimony. To he clear, the Larry Smith for the Texas Sheriff’s Association testified more favorably than any other org, but the org’s position was neutral including proposed amendments.

That testimony and comments by Lucio and Hinojosa painted a picture of the value of the LTC was the “14-point investigation” already done on the person who LE is interacting with. It obviates the question of if LTC is the good guy with the gun, then why is LE interacting with the LTC holder at all because LE shouldn’t just be asking for ID for shîts and giggles. Probable cause for a stop should have already occurred, but I digress.

The message I took away from the five different LE-related speakers and the two jackasses was that LE assumes everyone is a threat until proven otherwise, and that, my friends is both disappointing and sad to me because it indicates a cultural wall has been built by LE biasing against the public at large. Sure, call it due to mainly interacting with criminals, but just like most cops won’t shoot somebody in their career, I’m willing to bet that most cops also don’t deal with much more criminality than misdemeanor-level offenses. That, to me, doesn’t justify a mentality that every interaction is a threat until proven otherwise.

 

[avvidclif]

The message I took away from the five different LE-related speakers and the two jackasses was that LE assumes everyone is a threat until proven otherwise, and that, my friends is both disappointing and sad to me because it indicates a cultural wall has been built by LE biasing against the public at large. Sure, call it due to mainly interacting with criminals, but just like most cops won’t shoot somebody in their career, I’m willing to bet that most cops also don’t deal with much more criminality than misdemeanor-level offenses. That, to me, doesn’t justify a mentality that every interaction is a threat until proven otherwise.

That is called street smarts. It will not show as my smile will blind you to it but I'm watching every move you make, especially your eyes, they will telegraph your intentions, and where your hands are. As for the last statement about interfacing with criminals that depends on where you work. Barney Fife wouldn't know a criminal from a peony. In the major metromesses you deal with it every day. In a normal month I would hazard a guess I saw more than an officer from a under 200 person force would see in 2-5 years. It didn't help any that I spent 75% of my time in a minority section of town. Made a lot of friends and thoroughly enjoyed it. Treated people as I would want to be treated. Worked 75% of the time anyway. Would I do it today, NOPE, NO, Hell NO. Totally different attitude on both sides of the street.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

I watched quite a few hours of the testimony.

Notable that a few people pointed out that how this bill affects law enforcement ain’t the main thing, this bill is about the rights of the people so that should take priority.

So many “MDA” tools. I had fun bashing then in the chat or the livestream I was in. Relieved a little stress.

I’ll link the livestream I watched. I listened some of the last four hours of it.