Texas electric grid. This is gonna hurt.

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  • oldag

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    The two principal mechanisms of subsidizing renewables are productions tax credits (PTC) and then renewable portfolio standards that require a certain portion of new generation to be from renewable sources.

    PTCs typically allow a tax credit for the plant owners per MegaWattHour (MWH) of generation produced. This MWH credit pushes renewable generation to generate even when it might not be otherwise cost effective to generate. This has created the unique situation where there will extended periods of negative pricing for power. This then sends a market signal that something like a dispatchable coal plant must shut down to let subsidized wind generation generate while the wind is blowing. That works well up until the wind stops when you needed that coal plant online. PTCs will force the negative price as low as their credit amount for example if the PTC is $35 a MWH they will only stop generating at negative $35 a MWH. This displaces reliable coal which costs $12 a MWH. The math here is insane.

    Forcing wind plants to turn off in the face of negative pricing would be a rational solution to this, but the greens tell us it is essential so that we develop mechanisms to store that power for later. Battery Storage is crazy expensive and unlikely to change rapidly.

    Renewable Portfolio standards are somewhat less disruptive to reliability as they are just a requirement that total output from renewables be a certain percentage. They still force uneconomic investment in crazily expensive generation, but they do not force it to run irrationally.

    All told, it is expensive to be green and cost effectiveness discussions are not welcome by advocates.
    Correct.

    There was also an ITC alternative, that may have expired.

    Battery storage is just that - storage. BESS does not generate electricity. Some folks are not aware of the difference.
     

    oldag

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    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ma...lion-losses-calls-further-governmental-action

    Global green energy company Siemens Gamesa reported Thursday that it had lost a staggering $967 million during the three-month period from between October to December.

    "The beginning of fiscal year 2023 saw a further increase in global wind demand prospects for the next ten years, but further governmental action is needed to close the gap between ambitious targets and actual installations," the company added in its release.

    Translation: MORE taxpayer dollars please!

    GE just blamed poor results on wind as well.
     

    RedneckHillbilly

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    My concern with “renewables” is as some of you have stated, they’re unreliable. They cost more to build, take much more energy to make them then they’ll produce, and destroy more of the environment by unearthing the minerals necessary to make, plus its pretty much “indentured servants” doing some of the mining for the EV’s stuff to make batteries. With volcanic activity happening and causing more aerosols in the air, which will make solar generation harder, possibly colder winters as well. What will happen with the panels are covered in snow, and the wind farms are iced up? Then plug your EV in on an already under capacity system, its going to get worse and worse, if they continue down this path. Yes, there are reasons to need such, for instance emergency back ups possibly, where only essential things are used, but even then, would you depend on it. Or would a huge ass generator on diesel power be more reliable, especially when it is an emergency?
     

    RedneckHillbilly

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    Something else to consider, when I was driving with the kids and looking at all the closed oil field businesses. It is this, the oil field wasn’t just businesses drilling oil, there was auxiliary businesses and auxiliary businesses for those businesses that supplied the needs of each other. Small businesses thrived off of that and it all supported the oil industry and then tertiary work when the oilfield didn’t need anything. With the solar and wind stuff, majority of that is made overseas, and I it’s predominantly just install sand maintenance. No machine shops, no pump shops, no anything supporting the renewable industry except big business. The small guy doesn’t even have a chance with it.
     

    seeker_two

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    That place east of Waco....
    If it's a bad year I'm gonna bail when it's over. They did nothing to better the system or stop the corruption and I don't believe they ever will. I'd rather watch the Antelope roam.

    It's Texas government....the bluest Repubicans you'll ever see. Did you expect anything different?
     

    Steve In Texas

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    I can make the case there is a huge disconnect coming in the electric power industry. We spent 100 years touting the benefits of central stations. Read about Samuel Insull (of Commonwealth Edison infamy) at Archbridge to see details. (Link below)
    In the last several years the technology to tell the utility to pound sand and supply your own power has become more and more cost effective. The same green solar panels the utility buys we can also buy to put on our roofs. With a greener attitude than I like that is told amazingly well by Our Word In Data at: https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

    The hyper insulated home, super efficient appliances, and energy conservation tools all allow a great deal of independence and self sufficiency with a bit of planning. With a Tesla power wall or competitor and and a roof top of solar panels in many ways one can disconnect from the grid with some sacrifice in comfort. Better yet, stay connected for backup from them and minimal monthly fee.

     
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    oldag

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    I can make the case there is a huge disconnect coming in the electric power industry. We spent 100 years touting the benefits of central stations. Read about Samuel Insull (of Commonwealth Edison infamy) at Archbridge to see details. (Link below)
    In the last several years the technology to tell the utility to pound sand and supply your own power has become more and more cost effective. The same green solar panels the utility buys we can also buy to put on our roofs. With a greener attitude than I like that is told amazingly well by Our Word In Data at: https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

    The hyper insulated home, super efficient appliances, and energy conservation tools all allow a great deal of independence and self sufficiency with a bit of planning. With a Tesla power wall or competitor and and a roof top of solar panels in many ways one can disconnect from the grid with some sacrifice in comfort. Better yet, stay connected for backup from them and minimal monthly fee.

    And all that money to buy that stuff (excepting the taxpayer forced subsidies)? I would rather have a functioning grid and much fewer renewables.
     

    FireInTheWire

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    I can make the case there is a huge disconnect coming in the electric power industry. We spent 100 years touting the benefits of central stations. Read about Samuel Insull (of Commonwealth Edison infamy) at Archbridge to see details. (Link below)
    In the last several years the technology to tell the utility to pound sand and supply your own power has become more and more cost effective. The same green solar panels the utility buys we can also buy to put on our roofs. With a greener attitude than I like that is told amazingly well by Our Word In Data at: https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

    The hyper insulated home, super efficient appliances, and energy conservation tools all allow a great deal of independence and self sufficiency with a bit of planning. With a Tesla power wall or competitor and and a roof top of solar panels in many ways one can disconnect from the grid with some sacrifice in comfort. Better yet, stay connected for backup from them and minimal monthly fee.

    If you crunch numbers…. I don’t think it’s worth it
     
    Every Day Man
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