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  • Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    Yep Waco was a clusterfuck, the first agent shot (in the leg) was a friend. He agrees that the supervisors escalated an already tense situation.

    Not for sure of the relative "brightness" of anyone that would still participate in an operation, that they thought was compromised and the subjects knew they were coming.

    There was ample time to serve the warrant on Koresh, long before it ever escalated to the point of being a stand-off situation.
    Lynx Defense
     

    Coyote9

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    Not for sure of the relative "brightness" of anyone that would still participate in an operation, that they thought was compromised and the subjects knew they were coming.

    There was ample time to serve the warrant on Koresh, long before it ever escalated to the point of being a stand-off situation.
    During my 21 years in the military, I participated in numerous actions directed by National Command Authority which just about everyone at the pointy end thought was somewhat short of well thought out or even wise. But then I guess "brightness" could be argued there also.
     

    Axxe55

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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    During my 21 years in the military, I participated in numerous actions directed by National Command Authority which just about everyone at the pointy end thought was somewhat short of well thought out or even wise. But then I guess "brightness" could be argued there also.

    Well, having never served in the military, I would have to assume you are correct, because I have seen much of the same in the corporate world as well!
     

    reysanz76

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    Brace yourself for after the inauguration, we’re going to fight for the next 4years. They are going to declare guns a health problem.
     
    Last edited:

    justmax

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    My apologies if this point has been made in previous posts, but I think it is important to understand the origins of the modern BATFE and the previous ATF.

    ATF (later called BATFE) was transformed from revenue collection to more emphasis on firearms around 1968/1969 after the assassinations of RFK and MLK. It was a "knee jerk" reaction to make it look like our fearless leaders were doing something.

    This new direction of the agency required more and different personnel than what was already there. Many of the new hires were graduates of FLETC, but were passed over by other Federal LE agencies. (Translate that to C and D students.)

    Over the following years and decades, many of these less than stellar LEOs washed out, but some went on to become management.

    FYI, the same applies the the DEA.
     

    popper

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    Biden was never competent. ATF (Treasury) is basically a TAX division! Fed. Tobacco, alcohol and firearms TAXES.

    • Manufacture, wholesale and importation of alcohol and tobacco;
    • Regulating the alcohol and tobacco industries and Special Occupational TAX (SOT); and
    • Collection of the Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Ammunition Excise Taxes imposed on manufactures and importers of these products.
     

    benenglish

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    ATF (Treasury) is basically a TAX division!
    ATF hasn't been a part of Treasury since 2003; it's part of Justice. The tax duties of the ATF that were left behind in Treasury are now administered by the TTB (Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau).
     
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