Spoke to a 21 year old biden supporter today!

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  • slumpychuck

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    Mmmmm.... I suggested talking/educating was a solution. Both you and Axxe55 suggest I'm wrong and that time has passed. Yet, you offer no proposal, no solution to the problem, other than letting the U.S.A. crash and burn to teach them fucka's a lesson that "maybe" they'll learn. I dunno - sounds kinna risky to me.

    I did not offer letting the U.S.A crash and burn as a solution, I simply suggested that having conversation may no longer be the best approach. When you were younger and you did something you weren't supposed to I imagine your parents sat you down and explained why that action was wrong. However, if you continued to do it time and time again, how many explanations did you get before you actually got punished for it? If you kept doing it, would that punishment get more severe or would you get a more in depth explanation? My only point here is that at some point you have to recognize that they are not doing what they are because they don't understand what they're being told. They do what they do because they have not had to experience the repercussions of their actions on any significant scale and even more so, their actions are positively reinforced by the fact that they keep doing it.

    So, let me share my witty saying: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." How many times do we conversate with the irrational before we decide that the approach OBVIOUSLY isn't working?
     

    slumpychuck

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    @Dougw1515 Seems like you said here that you don't believe conversation is going to work anymore, either, so I am not sure the stance you are trying to defend.
     

    Dougw1515

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    And you know the solution? Might want to look closer to your own home before suggesting that I'm part of the problem. Case in point, I don't have any children. But you do.




    My proposal and solution was right there in the first replay I made to you. Let the world come crashing down on their heads!

    I enjoy a lot of what technology has to offer and I do use it, but I'm hardly dependent upon it like the younger generations are. A country can survive, is more than just a song for some of us. I also adhere in many ways of the philosophy of survival of the fittest. I won't lose a lot of sleep over the loss of the soft and weak in our society.
    The fact that you do not have children validates your point - HOW? You keep repeating "Let the world come crashing down on their heads!" Are you oblivious to the fact that same world is also OUR world? Your argument is entirely nonsensical.
     

    Axxe55

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    The fact that you do not have children validates your point - HOW? You keep repeating "Let the world come crashing down on their heads!" Are you oblivious to the fact that same world is also OUR world? Your argument is entirely nonsensical.

    Maybe I'm smarter than some of you by not having any children! But that's another topic for later I guess. But I have had more than my fair share of step-children from three marriages, and have had some impact and influence in their lives. Just because I never fathered children should you assume I know nothing about raising them.

    Not oblivious in the least. I fully realize I live in that same world and I fully expect that I'm better prepared to survive if the world comes crashing down that some 21 year old Biden supporter who doesn't have a clue about the real world.
     

    Dougw1515

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    @Dougw1515 Seems like you said here that you don't believe conversation is going to work anymore, either, so I am not sure the stance you are trying to defend.
    I know... I know!!! Let's just pack'em up and send'em to re-education camps! Yeah.... That'll do it.

    Both of y'all took a statement I made - about my 50 year old son - and attempted to apply it to a conversation I was having with a 21 year old college student. Both of you come across is quitters in the 1st degree. All I'm hearing is "screw it there's nothing we can do. You present yourselves as we are smarter than them because we've been though this before and now there's no choice left but to let the young dumbasses experience it for themselves. NEWS BULLETIN - The U.S.A has NEVER been where we are headed. You have no experience with what is coming. Stop acting like you do.

    Again, I repeat myself, other than letting the U.S.A. implode on it's self, which is an absolutely horrible idea, I have seen no solutions or attempted solutions or suggested solutions coming from either of you. Quitters!
     

    bbbass

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    They all go sideways or south. Just look at Crenshaw. He was all about putting Texas first, but the first time he was rattled by anything, he began sputtering about how it's ok for a trained pro like himself to have an AR15 but not civilians. He's smelling a bit like a lawyer-politician that knows better that you because....well...you know he is, right?

    Years ago I met a young man just back from soldiering in the Middle East. He said the same thing as Crenshaw. I was astounded and offended. He had just bought one of the last ARs sold at Walmart at the time, but he thought people shouldn't have them... WTF


    I would have said the same about Obama voters. But a lot of them became Trump voters.

    If you refuse to let people change or allow them to hear an apposing view, they will never hear any reason to change and never know any different than what they hear on CNN. Especially the younger crowd.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    How many times do we conversate with the irrational before we decide that the approach OBVIOUSLY isn't working?


    I have given up on having conversations with leftists because they don't listen, and are usually aggressive with bringing out the latest tropes and dogma, blame game, and personalizing it all at ME. I'm tired of trying. I'm too old for this shit. I give up. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen. I just want to live out the rest of my life in whatever peace I can find. And lately it is very little.

    Used to be, I could have discussions with liberals. But in today's world the ones I encounter are all radical dogmatic leftists. I'm not going to change my beliefs and they aren't going to change theirs. And I'm not willing to meet in the middle, because the middle has moved so far left that it is no longer a step towards Marxism, it is Communism/totalitarian/fascist. All you have to do is look around lately, they are in full attack mode.
     
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    slumpychuck

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    I know... I know!!! Let's just pack'em up and send'em to re-education camps! Yeah.... That'll do it.

    Both of y'all took a statement I made - about my 50 year old son - and attempted to apply it to a conversation I was having with a 21 year old college student. Both of you come across is quitters in the 1st degree. All I'm hearing is "screw it there's nothing we can do. You present yourselves as we are smarter than them because we've been though this before and now there's no choice left but to let the young dumbasses experience it for themselves. NEWS BULLETIN - The U.S.A has NEVER been where we are headed. You have no experience with what is coming. Stop acting like you do.

    Again, I repeat myself, other than letting the U.S.A. implode on it's self, which is an absolutely horrible idea, I have seen no solutions or attempted solutions or suggested solutions coming from either of you. Quitters!

    Look, Doug. First of all, I did not catch the full context of that separate post so I apologize for that. With that being said, it does speak to the fact that even you understand that the days for simple conversation are over. I am NOT advocating for the destruction of our Republic just to show a bunch of dumbass PNW grads that socialized medicine and open borders are not the way to go. To take that a step further, I would actively advocate AGAINST allowing them to have what they want because I think there's a good chance we would never recover from it, even if it would teach them a lesson as they live together with the rest of us in an eternal hell they created.

    Now, enough with the drama and back to the issue at hand. What the hell DO we do? You keep saying I don't have any solutions and I am here to say I KNOW! That's why I am having this discussion, trying to determine what options we have. I have tried conversation time and time again, I have tried education, I don't know what else to try short of saying that at some point we need a boot in someone's ass. I understand that conclusion is short sighted and I think that's why we need this conversation. So more days like January 6th don't have to happen. Those people thought that was the only option they had and if we don't collectively come up with something else, they are going to use that approach again and that's what the left wants. The more they can drive us to act out the more they can paint us all radical terrorists and discredit anything we have to say. They did it last week and took thousands off the internet and removed their access to the most widespread communication channel on the planet. Can't even have conversations with them if we wanted to.

    What I am trying to say here is that I think we agree more than we don't. I understand and agree with what you said about being willing and able to conversate and educate. But I also strongly believe that you can only try an approach so many times before you have to accept it might just not work. I think that is where we are now when it comes to approaching the left with civil discord. I think you share some of those feelings. In conclusion, I do not think letting America collapse under their ideals is the best way to win this battle or a way to win it at all. To your point, however, about this being OUR world as well. You're right, it is, and if we don't do something about the direction it's going then we are damning ourselves and our children in the same manner we would be if we let the country collapse.
     

    Dougw1515

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    Look, Doug. First of all, I did not catch the full context of that separate post so I apologize for that. With that being said, it does speak to the fact that even you understand that the days for simple conversation are over. I am NOT advocating for the destruction of our Republic just to show a bunch of dumbass PNW grads that socialized medicine and open borders are not the way to go. To take that a step further, I would actively advocate AGAINST allowing them to have what they want because I think there's a good chance we would never recover from it, even if it would teach them a lesson as they live together with the rest of us in an eternal hell they created.

    Now, enough with the drama and back to the issue at hand. What the hell DO we do? You keep saying I don't have any solutions and I am here to say I KNOW! That's why I am having this discussion, trying to determine what options we have. I have tried conversation time and time again, I have tried education, I don't know what else to try short of saying that at some point we need a boot in someone's ass. I understand that conclusion is short sighted and I think that's why we need this conversation. So more days like January 6th don't have to happen. Those people thought that was the only option they had and if we don't collectively come up with something else, they are going to use that approach again and that's what the left wants. The more they can drive us to act out the more they can paint us all radical terrorists and discredit anything we have to say. They did it last week and took thousands off the internet and removed their access to the most widespread communication channel on the planet. Can't even have conversations with them if we wanted to.

    What I am trying to say here is that I think we agree more than we don't. I understand and agree with what you said about being willing and able to conversate and educate. But I also strongly believe that you can only try an approach so many times before you have to accept it might just not work. I think that is where we are now when it comes to approaching the left with civil discord. I think you share some of those feelings. In conclusion, I do not think letting America collapse under their ideals is the best way to win this battle or a way to win it at all. To your point, however, about this being OUR world as well. You're right, it is, and if we don't do something about the direction it's going then we are damning ourselves and our children in the same manner we would be if we let the country collapse.
    I hear you. As a parent having raised 3 children of my own from conception to now. There are times I got/get extremely frustrated. During those times, yes, I walk away. But I don't quit. Don't stop teaching. Don't stop guiding. At times it's pretty damn discouraging. Thinking - well crap - they just ain't gonna get it. But that passes and I go back to doing what parents do(most of'em) I endure. All is not lost on the young people of today. There are some that have their head screwed on straight. The others are teachable. Yes, might take their world crashing down on US. But that would be in spite of and not because we simply got tired of repeating ourselves pointing out the error of their beliefs. Then... one day. Just like happened to most of us at some point - they begin to see the light. Begin to understand the lessons we've been trying to teach. But to just give up, while we still have a country worth saving, is just so foreign to me that I simply can not accept that as "all I can do". "Can" sometimes needs a little shove from "want to" to get it over the hump.
     

    Axxe55

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    I hear you. As a parent having raised 3 children of my own from conception to now. There are times I got/get extremely frustrated. During those times, yes, I walk away. But I don't quit. Don't stop teaching. Don't stop guiding. At times it's pretty damn discouraging. Thinking - well crap - they just ain't gonna get it. But that passes and I go back to doing what parents do(most of'em) I endure. All is not lost on the young people of today. There are some that have their head screwed on straight. The others are teachable. Yes, might take their world crashing down on US. But that would be in spite of and not because we simply got tired of repeating ourselves pointing out the error of their beliefs. Then... one day. Just like happened to most of us at some point - they begin to see the light. Begin to understand the lessons we've been trying to teach. But to just give up, while we still have a country worth saving, is just so foreign to me that I simply can not accept that as "all I can do". "Can" sometimes needs a little shove from "want to" to get it over the hump.

    Please tell me when it became my place, or responsibility, or concern, or whatever to "educate" or inform, or to guide other people's children?

    Just because their parents failed at their jobs in parenting, and their children lack a moral compass or any ethics and then gravitate towards a sense of being entitled without any participation, or working on their part, is not my worry, and I'm not about to start now.

    You can if that is what you feel is the answer to all our problems in this country. But like I said, I saw this starting to happen years ago, and seen it only getting worse.

    I'm going to exit out of this discussion because it keeps going round and round and getting nowhere.
     

    bbbass

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    "Politics follows culture"

    We need to START changing the culture back to traditional American ideals. Put money into conservative schools and radio and movies. Esp Hollyweird... they have so much influence that needs to be countered.

    Right now the left has all the influence. We took a long time to get here, it is going to be a long fight to get back. If we can.

    As to what we can each do personally, I'd have to agree with Axxe that we have limited influence on those around us. With our kids, it is only early in their lives. By the time they are teenagers, they have so much other influence on them.
     

    slumpychuck

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    I hear you. As a parent having raised 3 children of my own from conception to now. There are times I got/get extremely frustrated. During those times, yes, I walk away. But I don't quit. Don't stop teaching. Don't stop guiding. At times it's pretty damn discouraging. Thinking - well crap - they just ain't gonna get it. But that passes and I go back to doing what parents do(most of'em) I endure. All is not lost on the young people of today. There are some that have their head screwed on straight. The others are teachable. Yes, might take their world crashing down on US. But that would be in spite of and not because we simply got tired of repeating ourselves pointing out the error of their beliefs. Then... one day. Just like happened to most of us at some point - they begin to see the light. Begin to understand the lessons we've been trying to teach. But to just give up, while we still have a country worth saving, is just so foreign to me that I simply can not accept that as "all I can do". "Can" sometimes needs a little shove from "want to" to get it over the hump.
    I can't and won't argue your morality. I think you are spot on. I worry that we do not have enough time to keep repeating ourselves before irreversible damage is done and that's what makes me consider other, more brash, approaches to fixing these broken mindsets.
    Please tell me when it became my place, or responsibility, or concern, or whatever to "educate" or inform, or to guide other people's children?

    Just because their parents failed at their jobs in parenting, and their children lack a moral compass or any ethics and then gravitate towards a sense of being entitled without any participation, or working on their part, is not my worry, and I'm not about to start now.

    You can if that is what you feel is the answer to all our problems in this country. But like I said, I saw this starting to happen years ago, and seen it only getting worse.

    I'm going to exit out of this discussion because it keeps going round and round and getting nowhere.
    You can chose to be part of mankind or against mankind. We are arguing for and you are arguing against. Take your supplies and get down in your bunker and we will be sure to let you know when it's all over so you can come out and keep being an asshole.
     

    slumpychuck

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    "Politics follows culture"

    We need to START changing the culture back to traditional American ideals. Put money into conservative schools and radio and movies. Esp Hollyweird... they have so much influence that needs to be countered.

    Right now the left has all the influence. We took a long time to get here, it is going to be a long fight to get back. If we can.

    As to what we can each do personally, I'd have to agree with Axxe that we have limited influence on those around us. With our kids, it is only early in their lives. By the time they are teenagers, they have so much other influence on them.

    His point wasn't that he HAS limited influence. We would have all agreed with that. He just doesn't want to have any responsibility for the influence he DOES or COULD have.
     

    Axxe55

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    I can't and won't argue your morality. I think you are spot on. I worry that we do not have enough time to keep repeating ourselves before irreversible damage is done and that's what makes me consider other, more brash, approaches to fixing these broken mindsets.

    You can chose to be part of mankind or against mankind. We are arguing for and you are arguing against. Take your supplies and get down in your bunker and we will be sure to let you know when it's all over so you can come out and keep being an asshole.

    You might want to dial back some of the attitude new guy. Just a suggestion.
     

    bbbass

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    His point wasn't that he HAS limited influence. We would have all agreed with that. He just doesn't want to have any responsibility for the influence he DOES or COULD have.

    FYI, my statement only had to do with what I was positing and NOTHING to do with anything posted by others.

    This thread has become too argumentative for me.... I'm gone.
     

    slumpychuck

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    It was free advice. But it could lead to you being a short-timer here at TGT. Just saying.

    Maybe. But if anything in this thread was justification to remove me, then I don't want to be here. Doug and I had a pretty good discussion, all things considered, while you stood your ground. It did not seem like you really wanted to critically discuss those perspectives. That is your freedom and I respect it and quite frankly share that sentiment most of the time. In this case, I think it would have been more beneficial for you to give a little and at least entertain what he was trying to say. You may remember, after all, that I jumped in at your defense. Unsolicited, yes, but yours nonetheless.

    All of that being said, I am not trying to be a hot head on this forum and I will take your advice in that regard. I will, however, continue to press, challenge, and advocate for real in depth conversation as I do still believe that is the first step to resolving any and all of this bullshit. Hope you have a good say, sir, no hard feelings here.
     
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