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  • MountainGirl

    Never underestimate the abilities of an old woman.
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    Dec 22, 2022
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    Hybrid...

    First, I have to admit to being a TEOTWAWKI paranoid prepper.

    My "system" is a real hodgepodge started in ignorance and adapted as best possible...

    Water being critical importance, I needed a generator big enough to run my 3hp deep well pump... I bought a Miller Bobcat Welder (10kw). My thought at the time was that I would use the welder far more than the generator, and that has been the case.

    Wanting to go solar, I looked for the simplest install that I could do myself... That ended up being 30 LG MonoX 300w panels with integrated microinverters for 9kw. My thought at the time was that a micro inverter failing would decrease my production by 3%, while a line inverter failure would cut power 100%... So far, none have failed, but LG stopped producing integrated inverter panels and now solar panels.

    Wanting some off-grid capability I added a 4kw Magnum inverter with my 48v (8x 6v Trojan 105) as the emergency power source. Something like this is required to convert a micro inverter system into a hybrid system, but with the advantage of added cost...

    Wanting a more dedicated battery bank for extra capacity, I added a 8x Trojan 105 stationary bank. Thought was that I could transition this set to the golf cart when it's set failed and add a lithium battery bank for house power if those decreased in price.

    Wanting a water souce not dependent on batteries or generator, I installed 4x 300w Mission panels and a 750w solar direct controller and pump on my shallow well. This is probably the smartest thing most people could do, at a relatively low cost, to ensure a water source after SHTF.

    Wanting the ability to pump water from that well under cloud cover or at night, I added 5x 12v Everstart 29dc batteries to the system, being the cheapest way to 60v...

    Then, I added 1200w solar panels and a 750w pump to storage for backup... That's my EMP emergency water backup.

    I wouldn't do any of that the same way again, but it does all work, kinda...

    My assessment of my primary weakness is still power storage...

    For that, I'm currently thinking about 3x 48v 100ah Trophy or SOK LiFePO4 server rack batteries for about 15kwh of storage at a cost of about $5k...

    I think anything done toward power generation, beyond an emergency generator, has to just be something you want to do, cause the cost to benefits can't really be justified any other way.

    Kinda like guns after the first couple...
    gll - thanks for sharing your story; quite the journey. For the mountain, the critical thing was getting water: well drilled 200' through solid granite. In the day, even the best Grunfos pump wouldn't have pulled it up on just solar - so... aw hell. I dont wanna go through all that again. Let me just say that I applaud your perseverance, and as a fellow prepper I'm glad there are others here as nutz as I am. :laughing:

    I did find a couple old pics: of the cabin, the power room as it was being set up during the addition build, and the 9 panel array - built in place - 100' above the cabin on the highest south-facing almost enough flat spot. It was a bitch to snowshoe up to broom it off, lol

    cabinsunrisenewyearsmorning.jpg


    cabinsolar.jpg


    that last section had to be at an angle cause the mountain
    dropped off LOL It's foot was barely on the edge. :D
    cabinpanels.jpg
     
    Last edited:

    thescoutranch

    TN Transplant - We love living in TX
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    Mar 5, 2020
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    been offline for a day and missed a lot.

    Hybrid inverters was the term I could not remember.

    As stated above, Micro inverters, hybrid inverters and string inverters, if legally connected (and your power company will know if you’re not legally connected ) to a grid tied system, have to cut power to their output side to protect power company workers.
    (I’ve also read that the inverters are smart enough that you cannot trick them into producing power by disconnecting your main switch and backfeeding your system with the generator so it thinks it has utility power.)
    The hybrid inverters act as a automatic transfer switch over to your batteries, similar to what an automatic transfer switch does for whole house generators.

    Optimizers (instead of micro inverters) address the shading issue on string panel setups
     

    RedneckHillbilly

    Blacksheep of forums
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    Feb 15, 2023
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    Texas, Kilgore
    Hybrid...

    First, I have to admit to being a TEOTWAWKI paranoid prepper.

    My "system" is a real hodgepodge started in ignorance and adapted as best possible...

    Water being critical importance, I needed a generator big enough to run my 3hp deep well pump... I bought a Miller Bobcat Welder (10kw). My thought at the time was that I would use the welder far more than the generator, and that has been the case.

    Wanting to go solar, I looked for the simplest install that I could do myself... That ended up being 30 LG MonoX 300w panels with integrated microinverters for 9kw. My thought at the time was that a micro inverter failing would decrease my production by 3%, while a line inverter failure would cut power 100%... So far, none have failed, but LG stopped producing integrated inverter panels and now solar panels.

    Wanting some off-grid capability I added a 4kw Magnum inverter with my 48v (8x 6v Trojan 105) as the emergency power source. Something like this is required to convert a micro inverter system into a hybrid system, but with the advantage of added cost...

    Wanting a more dedicated battery bank for extra capacity, I added a 8x Trojan 105 stationary bank. Thought was that I could transition this set to the golf cart when it's set failed and add a lithium battery bank for house power if those decreased in price.

    Wanting a water souce not dependent on batteries or generator, I installed 4x 300w Mission panels and a 750w solar direct controller and pump on my shallow well. This is probably the smartest thing most people could do, at a relatively low cost, to ensure a water source after SHTF.

    Wanting the ability to pump water from that well under cloud cover or at night, I added 5x 12v Everstart 29dc batteries to the system, being the cheapest way to 60v...

    Then, I added 1200w solar panels and a 750w pump to storage for backup... That's my EMP emergency water backup.

    I wouldn't do any of that the same way again, but it does all work, kinda...

    My assessment of my primary weakness is still power storage...

    For that, I'm currently thinking about 3x 48v 100ah Trophy or SOK LiFePO4 server rack batteries for about 15kwh of storage at a cost of about $5k...

    I think anything done toward power generation, beyond an emergency generator, has to just be something you want to do, cause the cost to benefits can't really be justified any other way.

    Kinda like guns after the first couple...
    I like you line of thinking, as why I considered getting multiple smaller inverters, so if one failed, I could adapt and overcome it. Parts and bullets are probably more of a priority than owning an large cache of weaponry, although you could scavenge one and then trade or keep said piece for other things. At some point it will be impossible to obtain new things of either in your mindset of the future. I have hope there will at least be pockets within our civilization that can survive and maintain an economy, and can obtain needed items. I currently consider myself a novice at anything described or thought of other then being mechanically inclined to fix things.
     
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    RedneckHillbilly

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    One thing to consider is batteries have a cycle life, doesnt matter if it’s completely de charged or only half dead, one recharge is still a cycle. Not sure if it’s already been mentioned here and or talked and considered, just that it’s something to think about as well, when building a system, that the deep cycle batteries are completely utilized before being recharged.
     

    gll

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    Jan 22, 2016
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    One thing to consider is batteries have a cycle life, doesnt matter if it’s completely de charged or only half dead, one recharge is still a cycle. Not sure if it’s already been mentioned here and or talked and considered, just that it’s something to think about as well, when building a system, that the deep cycle batteries are completely utilized before being recharged.
    12v Lead Acid Battery Discharge Chart
    Screenshot_20230219-120618_Chrome.jpg

    Screenshot_20230219-120736_Chrome.jpg


    I could be wrong, but I think either type battery benefits by keeping discharge in the green and lesser depth discharges don't count as complete... Any battery is best maintained at near full charge.

    The big consideration when comparing the two types economically is that Lead Acid only gives you 50% of it's Ah rating at best, while LFP gives you at least 80%.
     

    RedneckHillbilly

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    12v Lead Acid Battery Discharge Chart
    View attachment 373311
    View attachment 373312

    I could be wrong, but I think either type battery benefits by keeping discharge in the green and lesser depth discharges don't count as complete... Any battery is best maintained at near full charge.

    The big consideration when comparing the two types economically is that Lead Acid only gives you 50% of it's Ah rating at best, while LFP gives you at least 80%.
    Appreciate the charts, i just remember when sitting through a forklift battery training, while at work, the dude was driving home the idea of not (using a forklift in this case) of running then charging while at break and then unplugging and running again, and then doing this over and over again, that it dramatically killed the life of the battery.’of course the percentage of capacity on the digital readout is probably based off the same as your charts as well. As wondering does the charge controllers do the same as only charging when voltages drop to a point and then charge to full, or is it a constant charging? I guess it also depends if the battery is acting as a capacitor or accumulator and providing power in the dips of the panels generating potential, and charges during peak potentials and idle use?
     

    MountainGirl

    Never underestimate the abilities of an old woman.
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    Wow reading all of this about grid tie is making my head hurt!!! It appears that the grid providers make it as difficult as possible. Glad I am totally off gird, with no chance of ever getting on, running my mini splits and my electric hot water heaters ;)
    Hey- could you share some how your system is setup? Especially about the mini splits; they're used a lot up north - wasn't sure how they'd do down here.
     

    Alsworld

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    Dec 24, 2009
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    Austin, Texas
    Here are my thoughts for your situation. You have very little power draw/consumption. Although true, Lithium Ion batteries can consume 100% power and be recharged without issues, and standard flooded, gel or AGM batteries should not be drawn below 50% for battery longevity, let's be fiscally responsible. With 200 watt panels, IMO a good quality AGM battery(s) or pair of 6V golf cart batteries in series (equaling 12V) would run your requirements easy. I just bought a 100ah Renogy AGM battery for $199. Way too early to recommend the battery (I've only had it two weeks as a backup power supply with a 100 watt Renogy Monocrystaline (sp?) panel). But I am impressed with Renogy solar products. In my opinion, a AGM battery might be your best solution now to save some cash yet fulfill your needs. It will buy you some time at a lower initial price to evaluate. I am certainly not against Lithium, but what best fits your situation is where my suggestion comes from.
     
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    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    Here are my thoughts for your situation. You have very little power draw/consumption. Although true, Lithium Ion batteries can consume 100% power and be recharged without issues, and standard flooded, gel or AGM batteries should not be drawn below 50% for battery longevity, let's be fiscally responsible. With 200 watt panels, IMO a good quality AGM battery(s) or pair of 6V golf cart batteries in series (equaling 12V) would run your requirements easy. I just bought a 100ah Renogy AGM battery for $199. Way too early to recommend the battery (I've only had it two weeks as a backup power supply with a 100 watt Renogy Monocrystaline (sp?) panel). But I am impressed with Renogy solar products. In my opinion, a AGM battery might be your best solution now to save some cash yet fulfill your needs. It will buy you some time at a lower initial price to evaluate. I am certainly not against Lithium, but what best fits your situation is where my suggestion comes from.

    Welcome to the Forum!

    Been here awhile, huh....
     
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