SigTac at the Range, didn't go as intended.

[nlghthawk]

I was at the range at lunch today in West San Antonio preparing to use my newly built AR Pistol with SigTac Brace. I lined up the red dot and squeezed one off when the range master comes up to me and tells me I can't shoulder my pistol. I was confused because I read the ATF letter before I put this weapons together and couldn't believe what he was telling me. I asked him again what he meant and he explained further that I had to use the pistol with the brace around my forearm. Now I was really confused because he is basically telling me I have to shoot my weapon in a way he wants me to, not how I plan to. I decided it wasn't worth arguing about so I packed up and left.

I can't see this as a safety issue, I liken this to being told that I can only shoot a pistol with 2 hands or some other arbitrary rule with no functional value.

I desperately want to stop going to public ranges and buy my own land, I digress.

thoughts?

 

[Southpaw]

Such silliness!!! Bullethole?

 

[Anger]

I've often wondered this same thing. I haven't been to a range yet with my SigTac but I "assumed" there might be a problem with "those" range officers.

 

[benenglish]

Please name the range.

 

[nlghthawk]

Actually the range officers were apologetic and were fully aware of the ATF letter. They however made a point to explain they were given explicit instructions and they were doing what they were told to do. I think West San Antonio should be perfectly clear as to where it is.

 

[Southpaw]

Actually the range officers were apologetic and were fully aware of the ATF letter. They however made a point to explain they were given explicit instructions and they were doing what they were told to do. I think West San Antonio should be perfectly clear as to where it is.

Was it indoor or outdoor?

 

[nlghthawk]

Outdoor...

 

[breakingcontact]

Please name the range.

Please name the range.

Liked so nice I quoted twice.

 

[Tx_Mark]

If it was bullethole... I was there today with my sig brace and wasn't told anything...

Edit: I was on a private bay though.


"Prepare yourself for the future,with what you've seen in the present"

 

[benenglish]

I'll assume that identifies the range for people in and around San Antonio.

As an RSO, my job is range safety. It's not enforcing arbitrary rules that the range owner conceived during a bad LSD trip. I feel sorry for the RSOs at that range, being caught between common sense (their job) and idiocy imposed on them by whoever signs their checks (not their job, but they're stuck with it.)

Out of curiosity and in a last-ditch attempt to make some sense of this, did the range officer give you any indication of the thinking behind the rule? Given that one of the worst problems that outdoor ranges must deal with is the inability of the average pistol shooter to keep their projectiles on the backstop, I'd think a range owner would *love* to see those forearm braces firmly tucked into shoulders. That's one less shooter who's highly unlikely to shoot over the berm or ricochet one off the ground 10 feet in front of the firing line.

Did they give you any clue?

Personally, I would have asked for my refund to be delivered to me by the owner/manager so that I could get an explanation, but that's just me. For example, when my local range started requiring a TDL to shoot IN ADDITION TO my membership card, I was more than a little put off. I sought out the manager who reminded me they'd had a suicide the previous week and while he agreed it was an over-reaction, he stood by it. I didn't agree with the reasoning (well, I didn't agree with imposing the rule on long-time members) but I could find it in my heart to accept it without further complaint.

I would very much like to give a range the benefit of the doubt when they impose weird rules. Sometimes there's a good (usually site-specific) reason for weird rules.

Can anybody think of/has anybody ever heard an even halfway reasonable excuse for prohibiting firing a pistol from the shoulder?

 

[Sugar Land]

Doesent that fall under his range his rules?

 

[benenglish]

"His range; his rules" is not absolute. "My range; no Arabs" is not a legally valid rule.

This rule isn't (on the surface) valid, either. It's not illegal but it seems stupid. I don't feel good about range owners who do stupid things. A customer has every right to ask why a rule exists. (To go further, any person has a near-absolute right to demand an explanation if another person tells them what they can and can't do with their own body, including how they hold a pistol.)

Of course, any business owner has every right to tell an inquiring customer to piss up a rope, if the owner is that incompetent at dealing with the public.

I'm not saying the range owner must explain the rule, just that he'd be smart to do so. I'm actually (I guess I didn't make this clear enough) looking for a reason to say "Oh, well, I might not like your reasoning but I can see why you feel that way."

I'm not asking the range owner to change his rules; I'm just wondering if he can articulate how the rule came into existence. My guess is that he can't.

I hope I'm wrong about that and intensely curious how that could be so.

 

[nlghthawk]

good point Bene, I too was looking for the reason for the rule. The RO couldnt give me one other than the "owners rules, its their range" I made a post on the ranges FB page also looking for an explanation. I can also get behind a rule that makes sense and I think this is my effort to find the sense of this rule that prevented me from shooting my weaapon in the prefered method. I am all about range safety and things that make sense, I am not a great suppporter of "do it because I said so".

The range was the Bullet Hole for those tracking....hopefully this will prompt them to rethink their position. It was on the 50yd lne, an I was iinvited to go to a private bay for an increased price and delayed wait for a bay.

 

[Sugar Land]

I feel that a range owner with that attitude will not be in biz long.

 

[Tx_Mark]

good point Bene, I too was looking for the reason for the rule. The RO couldnt give me one other than the "owners rules, its their range" I made a post on the ranges FB page also looking for an explanation. I can also get behind a rule that makes sense and I think this is my effort to find the sense of this rule that prevented me from shooting my weaapon in the prefered method. I am all about range safety and things that make sense, I am not a great suppporter of "do it because I said so".

The range was the Bullet Hole for those tracking....hopefully this will prompt them to rethink their position. It was on the 50yd lne, an I was iinvited to go to a private bay for an increased price and delayed wait for a bay.

That really sucks man... I guess they never bothered me because I was in a private bay.. Keep us updated if they ever respond.


"Prepare yourself for the future,with what you've seen in the present"

 

[TAZ]

How would showing ID prevent a suicide? Jee I was going to blow my brains out all over this range, but now that they have my ID I'm afraid it might end up in my permanent record?! WTF.

If it's a private range then his land his rules. And yes "my range no Arabs" is perfectly fine. It's called freedom. You are free to run your business into the ground AFAIC.

 

[Southpaw]

How would showing ID prevent a suicide? Jee I was going to blow my brains out all over this range, but now that they have my ID I'm afraid it might end up in my permanent record?! WTF.

If it's a private range then his land his rules. And yes "my range no Arabs" is perfectly fine. It's called freedom. You are free to run your business into the ground AFAIC.

Unfortunately, under federal and possibly state law (I would have to look) a business such as the Bullethole are considered "public accommodations**" Therefore, federal law prohibits public accommodations from discriminating on the basis of race, color, religion, or national origin

**Privately-owned/operated businesses and buildings. Privately-owned businesses and facilities that offer certain goods or services to the public -- including food, lodging, gasoline, and entertainment -- are considered public accommodations for purposes of federal and state anti-discrimination laws. For purposes of disability discrimination, the definition of a "public accommodation" is even more broad, encompassing most businesses that are open to the public (regardless of type).

 

[Dawico]

You should probably just sell me the pistol at a reduced price and wash your hands of the whole situation.

I am here to help.