Figured I'd start a thread on this one since I only found one other from a couple years ago. I picked one of these up awhile back for my wife. Also considered getting one for myself for more of a deep carry, pocket carry type gun for those times when I need something convenient or highly concealable. The weight of the .380 variant is just under 3oz lighter, which is a noticeable enough amount to matter. At ~15.7oz dry, in the pocket, IWB, or a fanny pack, it feels like you're carrying nothing.
Shooting characteristics
Unfortunately, here's where things start to go off the rails right off the bat. My wife experienced numerous failures to feed and failures to eject. In fairness, with my firm grip, I didn't experience a single stoppage. I tried a variety of ammo from Winchester White Box, Speer Lawman, Armscor steel case, and a few other brass FMJs I forget.
What I've found is, it appears in .380 these guns are very sensitive to ammo velocity and limp-wristing. In particular, it seems ammo at ~960+fps tended to function much more reliably for my wife. For me, I have a deathgrip, so all of it worked fine. Though, for me, some of the slower ammo made the gun feel like it was cycling incredibly sluggish and didn't inspire confidence.
I noticed the ejection pattern was fairly inconsistent and weak on this gun. For most FMJ loads being ~950fps or less, typically the brass just dribbles out of the ejection port by a few inches to a foot or two. The direction it ejects is inconsistent at ~3:00-4:30, and shifting between that range at random every few rounds, especially with my wife shooting it. With the few slightly hotter rounds I've shot that were more like ~975+fps, and with my death grip, ejection was more consistent from shot to shot and still within the ~3:00-4:00 range a bit farther like 5-6ft.
Long term, I think I'm going to aim for at least ~90-95gr ammo that's ideally ~975+fps to be safe. When looking around at various loads, I do see some in 88gr that are higher velocity and may be candidates. That said, considering the issues so far, I don't know that I'll ever bother with putting an RDS on this one since it cycles pretty sluggish as it is. That would sort of defeat the idea of a deep carry gun anyways.
Ammo choices
Just to start the conversation, and since I've already done a bit of leg work, figured I'd start a list of some of the higher velocity .380acp that might stand a better chance of cycling these guns with authority. I'm going purely off of velocity, which is nothing to say of ogive or other characteristics that might make some of these problematic for function. I'm also ignoring steel case, gimmick brands, and others with a poor reputation.
A few of these product lines might no longer be in production (Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics might not be, but not sure). If anyone finds that to be the case, let me know and I can remove them. Some of the foreign ones (Geco, Perfecta) also seem pretty hard to find in stock anywhere currently.
I've looked at quite a few loads so far, as well as checked Gunbroker and several ammo retailers. I'm most excited about the Federal AE 95gr. Rated at 980fps and being a widely available FMJ that's reasonably priced, I think it might end up being a solid option for range use. Considering the poor expansion ballistics of 380acp JHPs out of micro guns like this, the Federal AE might even double as an acceptable defensive round but, that remains to be seen.
I was most disappointed with the Speer Lawman 95gr (945fps). I usually default to Lawman in most calibers as it tends to be very consistent and reliable range ammo, and usually decent velocity in most calibers. In this case, on the stock grip module and 10rd mag, we did experience a few failures to load and failures to eject. The Lawman seemed to be just a bit too slow for this gun.
Feel free to post any loads you come across and I can add them to the list (sorted by velocity):
Shooting characteristics
Unfortunately, here's where things start to go off the rails right off the bat. My wife experienced numerous failures to feed and failures to eject. In fairness, with my firm grip, I didn't experience a single stoppage. I tried a variety of ammo from Winchester White Box, Speer Lawman, Armscor steel case, and a few other brass FMJs I forget.
What I've found is, it appears in .380 these guns are very sensitive to ammo velocity and limp-wristing. In particular, it seems ammo at ~960+fps tended to function much more reliably for my wife. For me, I have a deathgrip, so all of it worked fine. Though, for me, some of the slower ammo made the gun feel like it was cycling incredibly sluggish and didn't inspire confidence.
I noticed the ejection pattern was fairly inconsistent and weak on this gun. For most FMJ loads being ~950fps or less, typically the brass just dribbles out of the ejection port by a few inches to a foot or two. The direction it ejects is inconsistent at ~3:00-4:30, and shifting between that range at random every few rounds, especially with my wife shooting it. With the few slightly hotter rounds I've shot that were more like ~975+fps, and with my death grip, ejection was more consistent from shot to shot and still within the ~3:00-4:00 range a bit farther like 5-6ft.
Long term, I think I'm going to aim for at least ~90-95gr ammo that's ideally ~975+fps to be safe. When looking around at various loads, I do see some in 88gr that are higher velocity and may be candidates. That said, considering the issues so far, I don't know that I'll ever bother with putting an RDS on this one since it cycles pretty sluggish as it is. That would sort of defeat the idea of a deep carry gun anyways.
Ammo choices
Just to start the conversation, and since I've already done a bit of leg work, figured I'd start a list of some of the higher velocity .380acp that might stand a better chance of cycling these guns with authority. I'm going purely off of velocity, which is nothing to say of ogive or other characteristics that might make some of these problematic for function. I'm also ignoring steel case, gimmick brands, and others with a poor reputation.
A few of these product lines might no longer be in production (Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics might not be, but not sure). If anyone finds that to be the case, let me know and I can remove them. Some of the foreign ones (Geco, Perfecta) also seem pretty hard to find in stock anywhere currently.
I've looked at quite a few loads so far, as well as checked Gunbroker and several ammo retailers. I'm most excited about the Federal AE 95gr. Rated at 980fps and being a widely available FMJ that's reasonably priced, I think it might end up being a solid option for range use. Considering the poor expansion ballistics of 380acp JHPs out of micro guns like this, the Federal AE might even double as an acceptable defensive round but, that remains to be seen.
I was most disappointed with the Speer Lawman 95gr (945fps). I usually default to Lawman in most calibers as it tends to be very consistent and reliable range ammo, and usually decent velocity in most calibers. In this case, on the stock grip module and 10rd mag, we did experience a few failures to load and failures to eject. The Lawman seemed to be just a bit too slow for this gun.
Feel free to post any loads you come across and I can add them to the list (sorted by velocity):
Type | Grain | Type | Item Number | Velocity (fps) | Energy (ftlbs) |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Perfecta | 95 | FMJ | PF380000 | 1066 | Unknown |
Cor-Bon Self Defense | 90 | JHP | SD38090/20 | 1050 | 220 |
Federal HST | 99 | JHP | P380HST1 | 1030 | 233 |
Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics | 90 | JHP | 380APHP | 1030 | 210 |
Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics | 95 | FMJ | FCH380AP | 1010 | 215 |
Federal Hydra-Shok | 90 | JHP | P380HS1G | 1000 | 200 |
Federal Hydra-Shok Micro | 99 | JHP | P380HSD1 | 1000 | 200 |
Hornady Critical Defense | 90 | JHP | 90080 | 1000 | 200 |
Hornady XTP | 90 | JHP | 90102 | 1000 | 200 |
Hornady American Gunner XTP | 90 | JHP | 90104, 90107 | 1000 | 200 |
Winchester PDX1 | 95 | JHP | S380PDB | 1000 | 211 |
Black Hills | 90 | JHP | D380N120 | 1000 | 200 |
Browning X-Point | 95 | JHP | B191703802 | 1000 | 211 |
Browning BXP | 95 | JHP | B191703801 | 1000 | 211 |
Speer Gold Dot | 90 | JHP | 53606 | 990 | 196 |
Remington Express | 88 | JHP | R380A1 | 990 | 191 |
Remington HTP | 88 | JHP | RTP380A1 | 990 | 191 |
Remington UMC | 88 | JHP | L380A1B | 990 | 191 |
New Republic Training and Range | 95 | FMJ | RTR380BR | 985 | 205 |
Geco | 95 | FMJ | 2400668 | 985 | 284 (questionable) |
Federal Champion | 95 | FMJ | WMAE380 | 980 | 207 |
Federal Range Target Practice | 95 | FMJ | RTP38095 | 980 | 202 |
Federal American Eagle | 95 | FMJ | AE380AP | 980 | 203 |
SIG Elite V-Crown | 90 | JHP | E380A150 | 980 | 192 |
SIG 365 EDC | 90 | JHP | E380A1-365-20 | 980 | 192 |
DoubleTap | 95 | JHP | 380A95CE | 975 | 200 |
Fiocchi Extrema XTP | 90 | JHP | 380XTP25 | 975 | Unknown |
PMC Bronze | 90 | FMJ | 380A-BP | 961 | 185 |
Fiocchi Range Dynamics | 95 | FMJ | 380ARD | 960 | 194 |
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