SIG P365 .380

[SIG_Fiend]

Figured I'd start a thread on this one since I only found one other from a couple years ago. I picked one of these up awhile back for my wife. Also considered getting one for myself for more of a deep carry, pocket carry type gun for those times when I need something convenient or highly concealable. The weight of the .380 variant is just under 3oz lighter, which is a noticeable enough amount to matter. At ~15.7oz dry, in the pocket, IWB, or a fanny pack, it feels like you're carrying nothing.

Shooting characteristics
Unfortunately, here's where things start to go off the rails right off the bat. My wife experienced numerous failures to feed and failures to eject. In fairness, with my firm grip, I didn't experience a single stoppage. I tried a variety of ammo from Winchester White Box, Speer Lawman, Armscor steel case, and a few other brass FMJs I forget.

What I've found is, it appears in .380 these guns are very sensitive to ammo velocity and limp-wristing. In particular, it seems ammo at ~960+fps tended to function much more reliably for my wife. For me, I have a deathgrip, so all of it worked fine. Though, for me, some of the slower ammo made the gun feel like it was cycling incredibly sluggish and didn't inspire confidence.

I noticed the ejection pattern was fairly inconsistent and weak on this gun. For most FMJ loads being ~950fps or less, typically the brass just dribbles out of the ejection port by a few inches to a foot or two. The direction it ejects is inconsistent at ~3:00-4:30, and shifting between that range at random every few rounds, especially with my wife shooting it. With the few slightly hotter rounds I've shot that were more like ~975+fps, and with my death grip, ejection was more consistent from shot to shot and still within the ~3:00-4:00 range a bit farther like 5-6ft.

Long term, I think I'm going to aim for at least ~90-95gr ammo that's ideally ~975+fps to be safe. When looking around at various loads, I do see some in 88gr that are higher velocity and may be candidates. That said, considering the issues so far, I don't know that I'll ever bother with putting an RDS on this one since it cycles pretty sluggish as it is. That would sort of defeat the idea of a deep carry gun anyways.

Ammo choices
Just to start the conversation, and since I've already done a bit of leg work, figured I'd start a list of some of the higher velocity .380acp that might stand a better chance of cycling these guns with authority. I'm going purely off of velocity, which is nothing to say of ogive or other characteristics that might make some of these problematic for function. I'm also ignoring steel case, gimmick brands, and others with a poor reputation.

A few of these product lines might no longer be in production (Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics might not be, but not sure). If anyone finds that to be the case, let me know and I can remove them. Some of the foreign ones (Geco, Perfecta) also seem pretty hard to find in stock anywhere currently.

I've looked at quite a few loads so far, as well as checked Gunbroker and several ammo retailers. I'm most excited about the Federal AE 95gr. Rated at 980fps and being a widely available FMJ that's reasonably priced, I think it might end up being a solid option for range use. Considering the poor expansion ballistics of 380acp JHPs out of micro guns like this, the Federal AE might even double as an acceptable defensive round but, that remains to be seen.

I was most disappointed with the Speer Lawman 95gr (945fps). I usually default to Lawman in most calibers as it tends to be very consistent and reliable range ammo, and usually decent velocity in most calibers. In this case, on the stock grip module and 10rd mag, we did experience a few failures to load and failures to eject. The Lawman seemed to be just a bit too slow for this gun.

Feel free to post any loads you come across and I can add them to the list (sorted by velocity):

Type	Grain	Type	Item Number	Velocity (fps)	Energy (ftlbs)
Perfecta	95	FMJ	PF380000	1066	Unknown
Cor-Bon Self Defense	90	JHP	SD38090/20	1050	220
Federal HST	99	JHP	P380HST1	1030	233
Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics	90	JHP	380APHP	1030	210
Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics	95	FMJ	FCH380AP	1010	215
Federal Hydra-Shok	90	JHP	P380HS1G	1000	200
Federal Hydra-Shok Micro	99	JHP	P380HSD1	1000	200
Hornady Critical Defense	90	JHP	90080	1000	200
Hornady XTP	90	JHP	90102	1000	200
Hornady American Gunner XTP	90	JHP	90104, 90107	1000	200
Winchester PDX1	95	JHP	S380PDB	1000	211
Black Hills	90	JHP	D380N120	1000	200
Browning X-Point	95	JHP	B191703802	1000	211
Browning BXP	95	JHP	B191703801	1000	211
Speer Gold Dot	90	JHP	53606	990	196
Remington Express	88	JHP	R380A1	990	191
Remington HTP	88	JHP	RTP380A1	990	191
Remington UMC	88	JHP	L380A1B	990	191
New Republic Training and Range	95	FMJ	RTR380BR	985	205
Geco	95	FMJ	2400668	985	284 (questionable)
Federal Champion	95	FMJ	WMAE380	980	207
Federal Range Target Practice	95	FMJ	RTP38095	980	202
Federal American Eagle	95	FMJ	AE380AP	980	203
SIG Elite V-Crown	90	JHP	E380A150	980	192
SIG 365 EDC	90	JHP	E380A1-365-20	980	192
DoubleTap	95	JHP	380A95CE	975	200
Fiocchi Extrema XTP	90	JHP	380XTP25	975	Unknown
PMC Bronze	90	FMJ	380A-BP	961	185
Fiocchi Range Dynamics	95	FMJ	380ARD	960	194

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Grip modules

Stock module (10rd)
Not a lot to say about this one. My wife with much smaller hands didn't like this module as much as the XL. While we can both get a 3-finger grip with it, for me it's closer to a 2-finger. The downside is mag changes require significantly relaxing my grip. I don't mind doing this a bit on most guns. On this one, a bigger hand will pretty much engulf the bottom, rear, portion of the grip such that pulling or inserting the mag gets annoying and will hang up on or pinch your palm.

XL module
Just for fun, I've tried this one with a few different grip modules. I've used the XL grip module the most and quite like that one since I have L/XL sized hands. Factory 12rd mags are available for the .380 which fit the XL grip module. With this module and a firm grip, even firing single-handed, the gun is ridiculously easy to shoot. The recoil is of course minimal. Although the XL module is a bit big for the pocket, it works great in a fanny pack or IWB. I tried running a few holsters from Raven Concealment and FIST Holsters (these are super thin which is great comfort and minimizing holster footprint).

I also tried running the gun with this module in a Vertx S.O.C.P. Sling bag, which is a fairly small crossbody fanny pack. That bag is great for walks around the neighborhood. A little unassuming since it's small and looks like it can only carry a cell phone and small items. Nice and unassuming! Normally I can only fit a G26 with Ameriglo Defoor sights, flush fit 10rd mags, and a Raven VG2 trigger guard holster. The P365 .380 w/ XL module and 12rd mags fits just fine, although a bit tight.

OEM Macro module
I've also test fit a Macro grip module as well as test loading the 17rd 9mm mags with .380. I have not fired it in that configuration, though I plan to just for fun and to see what happens. If it works, that'll be a fun novelty for the range, a 17rd .380 with practically no recoil in that size of a frame.

Loading .380 in the 9mm Macro mags, you definitely notice added friction due to the increased amount of room in the tube the rounds can move. It's been a few days but, just by hand, I think I was only able to reach ~15-16 rounds before it was too stiff to load (posts out of context candidate right there!). I'll try later with a speedloader, and we'll see if it even functions with these mags in .380. I'm guessing spring tension on the underside of the slide might be an issue.

Wilson Combat Macro module (custom)
I also have a customized Wilson Combat Macro-sized frame a guy from another forum modified. He plastic welded up and stippled the grip to increase the overall diameter and backstrap substantially to the point where it feels AMAZING! Defeats the purpose of deep carry but, could be fun for a more HD/range oriented P365 in 9mm. I'll add pics of the frame soon. Guys with bigger hands would absolutely love this custom module. I think I'll probably do a 9mm XL slide w/ Armory Craft safety for this module to make for more of an all-around gun.

 

[jimbo]

I have the P365X with Wilson Combat grip module and love it. Just my 2 cents

 

[platoon2063]

I own one. I like it. It's an easy shooting gun that conceals very well when I wear summer clothing for example. Failure to eject is mostly a problem with a weak grip on this firearm. Personally, I've not had it happen but my 12yr old and my 21yr old niece who also have fired the gun several times have experienced failure to eject.

Ammo-I only use Federal or Blazer 95gr FMJ with zero issues.

 

[DaBull]

The 365 has pretty tight tolerances. I bet the sluggish cycling due to limp wristing will clear up after a break in period wears the contact points a little. Lube and shoot another few hundred rounds. Until then, those who have cycling problems should not use it for defense.

 

[shipwreck]

I have seen several Youtube vids showing that the 365in 380 is VERY susceptible to limp wristing.

The Glock 42 seems to be more forgiving in that regard.

 

[seeker_two]

I like the concept of a micro-9-sized gun in .380. I wish more manufacturers would get on that bandwagon. One of the reasons I have my GX4 up for sale is that my pre-arthritic hands can't handle 9mm in that small a package anymore. I emailed Taurus to ask if they would consider making the GX4 in .380. Taurus replied that it's not being considered at this time. Hope they change their minds.