SHOTGUN “Experts” (A Rant)

[leVieux]

>
As one who has used pump shotguns for over 65 years, owner of several, and in-Family “instructor”, I have extensive experience with our major pump-guns like, Model 12, 870, M500, BPS, even old 1895 Winchester “Knuckle Skinners”, etc. http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12295/12691281_1.jpg?v=8CEFB51DA21F580

When young in South Texas, I routinely shot 6, or 7, 500 round cases of shells per year.

I recently watched one more video, in which an “expert” demonstrated pump gun use, but looked to me to not have a clue.

If any pump is to be used efficiently, the “pumping” action is done with the shot and recoil, not later.

I ask other pump gunners to take a moment and call-out these faux “experts” whenever you see them.

I can recall old Herb Parsons throwing seven targets into the air, then casually hitting all while they were still up there, using a Remington pumpgun. He would shoot the 5 or 6 rounds, then reload from shells held in his left hand, to finish.

I never could do anything like that.

But I did shoot many triples on passing doves & teal. Never “holding the trigger down”, either.

There are reasons for the enduring favor of pump shotguns, and their capability of very rapid rate of fire is certainly one. We all should learn the proper technique, whether we use it or not.

Rant over,
leVieux
.

 

[perfor8]

That one for sale?

 

[leVieux]

That one for sale?

No, just a pic. Old Uncle Sonny @ Fulton/Rockport had a couple, and used him all lifetime. Sadly, they are gone.

We had Win Mod 12’s until the more modern Rem 870 SF & EF styles came out. I bought 4 of those from McBride’s one year.

 

[seeker_two]

One of the best shotgun techniques is done by Paul Harrell. When he shoots a pump-action, he works the slide as soon as the round fires. He's so smooth and immediate that you can miss seeing it. I think he learned from Hackathorn or Awerbuck....

 

[MountainGirl]

>
As one who has used pump shotguns for over 65 years, owner of several, and in-Family “instructor”, I have extensive experience with our major pump-guns like, Model 12, 870, M500, BPS, even old 1895 Winchester “Knuckle Skinners”, etc. http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12295/12691281_1.jpg?v=8CEFB51DA21F580 View attachment 363516
View attachment 363516
When young in South Texas, I routinely shot 6, or 7, 500 round cases of shells per year.

I recently watched one more video, in which an “expert” demonstrated pump gun use, but looked to me to not have a clue.

If any pump is to be used efficiently, the “pumping” action is done with the shot and recoil, not later.

I ask other pump gunners to take a moment and call-out these faux “experts” whenever you see them.

I can recall old Herb Parsons throwing seven targets into the air, then casually hitting all while they were still up there, using a Remington pumpgun. He would shoot the 5 or 6 rounds, then reload from shells held in his left hand, to finish.

I never could do anything like that.

But I did shoot many triples on passing doves & teal. Never “holding the trigger down”, either.

There are reasons for the enduring favor of pump shotguns, and their capability of very rapid rate of fire is certainly one. We all should learn the proper technique, whether we use it or not.

Rant over,
leVieux
.

Thanks for your rant; good information for a 'new to shotguns' woman.

I have a small .410 Mossberg pump that I haven't shot a lot (yet) and I'd rather see how it's done right - as most of my learning will be from watching videos and then shooting as much as possible.

I'll look for vids by Paul Harrell, as @seeker_two just mentioned him, but if there are any videos you'd recommend I watch please let me know. Thanks.

 

[BRD@66]

You seem to be implying that one doesn't have to know what he's doing to make an instructional video. That can't be right.

 

[bbbass]

Imagine my disillusionment when I first tried to use my Moss 500 in 3-gun competition and discovered that the action won't cycle if I held pressure back on the slide while pulling the trigger. I had such a puzzled look that a fellow shooter informed me that on that particular pump gun, you have to push the slide forward or at least hold it in place while pulling the trigger. No pre-loading of the action for rapid fire.

Don't know if the current, or any other, Moss 500 models are that way, but it sure put a damper on any rapid shooting. I wound up switching to a Rem 1100 with two 8rd tube mags brazed end to end. Funny looking thing, but they weren't doing much mandatory reloads at the time. Big competitive advantage.

 

[MountainGirl]

@leVieux - is this what you are referring to?

Pullrack (at 6:20)



(thanks again, @seeker_two )

 

[Eastexasrick]

Winchester 1893. A gift from my Great Uncle. He racked the pump immediately, as he continued his follow through. You never heard it rack as the boom was still rolling out across the field. He followed the bird, in case a follow up was needed, with the gun reloaded in a split second. I took it to a smoke pole trap shoot. Shot in the doubles, every one else was on a SxS. I took first in doubles, Racking the gun is a natural follow up to the recoil, it keeps you tracking the target cleaner than a side by side. There was some pissin and moaning about a pump gun in a black powder shoot, but it was the only original black powder in the shoot.

 

[Texasjack]

I've had autoloaders, but I love pump shotguns and I think it's because of the super reliability. I honestly can't say the last time I shot one, but I know they're ready to go any time they're needed.

 

[reddog]

I like you have shot pump guns my whole life, mostly model 12's. I have never thought about the pumping action, it just happens with the ejected shell leaving the receiver before the full recoil cycle has peaked. Hard to believe anyone shoots one any differently!

 

[Axxe55]

YA JUST GOTTA LOVE THESESEINTERNET EXPERTS

 

[single stack]

I recall Herb Parsons was a Winchester representative, a fantastic showman.
I like pump guns too.
I am more of a shotgun snob than an expert.

 

[leVieux]

Thanks for your rant; good information for a 'new to shotguns' woman.

I have a small .410 Mossberg pump that I haven't shot a lot (yet) and I'd rather see how it's done right - as most of my learning will be from watching videos and then shooting as much as possible.

I'll look for vids by Paul Harrell, as @seeker_two just mentioned him, but if there are any videos you'd recommend I watch please let me know. Thanks.

>
That sounds like a delightful little gun to start with. Just ask around to find a pump-gun hunter and ask them to help you. Many of the available videos are from “Police Instructors” who have little actual experience or talent. Learn your .410 well before going on to a larger gauge. Good Luck !

 

[leVieux]

I like you have shot pump guns my whole life, mostly model 12's. I have never thought about the pumping action, it just happens with the ejected shell leaving the receiver before the full recoil cycle has peaked. Hard to believe anyone shoots one any differently!

“EXACKERLY” !

And, Thanks

 

[seeker_two]

>
That sounds like a delightful little gun to start with. Just ask around to find a pump-gun hunter and ask them to help you. Many of the available videos are from “Police Instructors” who have little actual experience or talent. Learn your .410 well before going on to a larger gauge. Good Luck !

If you're not into hunting or gun games (skeet, 3-Gun, etc.), a .410 pump will adequately handle your varmint needs....4-legged, 2-legged, and no-legged.

 

[BigRed]

>
As one who has used pump shotguns for over 65 years, owner of several, and in-Family “instructor”, I have extensive experience with our major pump-guns like, Model 12, 870, M500, BPS, even old 1895 Winchester “Knuckle Skinners”, etc. http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12295/12691281_1.jpg?v=8CEFB51DA21F580 View attachment 363516
View attachment 363516
When young in South Texas, I routinely shot 6, or 7, 500 round cases of shells per year.

I recently watched one more video, in which an “expert” demonstrated pump gun use, but looked to me to not have a clue.

If any pump is to be used efficiently, the “pumping” action is done with the shot and recoil, not later.

I ask other pump gunners to take a moment and call-out these faux “experts” whenever you see them.

I can recall old Herb Parsons throwing seven targets into the air, then casually hitting all while they were still up there, using a Remington pumpgun. He would shoot the 5 or 6 rounds, then reload from shells held in his left hand, to finish.

I never could do anything like that.

But I did shoot many triples on passing doves & teal. Never “holding the trigger down”, either.

There are reasons for the enduring favor of pump shotguns, and their capability of very rapid rate of fire is certainly one. We all should learn the proper technique, whether we use it or not.

Rant over,
leVieux
.

I got invited by some friends to shoot some sporting clays... involving some friendly wagers.

I do a fair amount of bird hunting and would normally show up to such an invite with an O/U. Some of the folks like to use a semi shotty...nothing wrong with then, just not my cup of tea.

I decided to show up with an Ithaca 37 from 1952....and cleaned up!

I still get it out from time to time for birds... JMB did some nice work with that one IMO.

 

[Sam7sf]

The real problem “instructors” have is the inability to teach and over hype experience but that’s human nature.

Best advice I can give new shooters taking any class is don’t attend if instructors get over tactical, intense, and act as know it all operators. Some are full of hot air and couldn’t teach a dog to lick his own nuts.

Paul harrel is someone I would recommend new shooters listen to. He’s had real life experiences with deadly conduct type situations and imo hasn’t over dramatized.

 

[MountainGirl]

The real problem “instructors” have is the inability to teach and over hype experience but that’s human nature.

Best advice I can give new shooters taking any class is don’t attend if instructors get over tactical, intense, and act as know it all operators. Some are full of hot air and couldn’t teach a dog to lick his own nuts.

Paul harrel is someone I would recommend new shooters listen to. He’s had real life experiences with deadly conduct type situations and imo hasn’t over dramatized.

Thanks - and I agree re Harrell. Just watching him in that vid you can tell (well, I can anyway) that he's been there done that. I plan on watching more of him. Wannabees are easy to spot, too; no interest in that. How do y'all say it down here? All hat and no horse? LOL I'm so lovin Texas.

 

[Sam7sf]

Thanks - and I agree re Harrell. Just watching him in that vid you can tell (well, I can anyway) that he's been there done that. I plan on watching more of him. Wannabees are easy to spot, too; no interest in that. How do y'all say it down here? All hat and no horse? LOL I'm so lovin Texas.

People just don’t know. Ain’t their fault. Military, le, security, many over dramatize because it’s human nature to love attention.

I’m nothing special. Just been good at surviving. My current job is a human target; armored driver/guard in South Dallas. I realized how little I knew before. A lot of it can only be taught by handling a situation and improving on it for the next time unfortunately.

I often tell people now that the best training methods aren’t always with guns. It’s working hard to be alert, see danger before it gets too close, learning patterns criminals have, NOT avoiding eye contact, all things that’s easy to say but methods can’t really be articulated until after dealing with them.