Selling to someone without a Texas DL

[Freedom1911]

Where I live the persons ID determines state of residence. If you live in Mo for ten years and still have a Utah DL or ID you have to go through a FFL to sell any firearm.
Also any one still using a out of state ID after that length of time would be in violation of Mo law which says you must update you ID/DL inside of 6mo I think it is or you have violated some kind of law.
My personal sales process is this.
If they have any CCW from any state I will sell to them, they have to fill out a receipt and provide their CCW or DL number and sign the receipt. All info requested of the buyer is also given by me.
If the buyer does not have a CCW from any state, the sale must go through a FFL so that a NICS check can be run.

Some time back I was in the process of selling a pistol to a guy who swore he had a clean record. I found out through some mutual acquaintances that the guy had a felony and had spent two years in jail. I stopped the sale in its tracks and adopted my current system. The law may say KNOWINGLY sell, which I believed his record to be clean. But after coming that close to making a big mistake. I make sure. CCW means they have been checked out by their home state or by a state that issues out of state permits. They go through a FFL so I know they are good and that I am not braking any laws by selling to them. And if it is an out of state sale it goes through a FFL.

 

[GM.Chief]

If his ID is not Texas, he wouldn't be able to purchase a gun in Texas gun shop from an FFL. There are forum members here who HAVE a TXDL with an incorrect address and they can't even buy a gun through an FFL because the address doesn't match. Bottom line...it is not legal to sell him a gun since you KNOW he does not have legal proof. It was a good decision to move on and sell to someone else. He offered the info up, so his loss.

 

[Buck Nekkid]

I've resided in TX for over a year, but am a resident of NV. As a cosequence I have a NV DL and CCW, but I also have a TX ID. The TX ID is for check cashing, etc. So would you have sold to me?

 

[Renegade]

If his ID is not Texas, he wouldn't be able to purchase a gun in Texas gun shop from an FFL. There are forum members here who HAVE a TXDL with an incorrect address and they can't even buy a gun through an FFL because the address doesn't match. Bottom line...it is not legal to sell him a gun since you KNOW he does not have legal proof. It was a good decision to move on and sell to someone else. He offered the info up, so his loss.

Yes he could. There is no requirement to have a Texas/DL.

Buck Nekked (above) gives a good example of someone who does not have a Texas/DL but is still a Texas resident.

Here is 4473 explanation of how an FFL can legally sell a handgun to a dual resident:

 

[Dallas239]

If his ID is not Texas, he wouldn't be able to purchase a gun in Texas gun shop from an FFL. There are forum members here who HAVE a TXDL with an incorrect address and they can't even buy a gun through an FFL because the address doesn't match. Bottom line...it is not legal to sell him a gun since you KNOW he does not have legal proof. It was a good decision to move on and sell to someone else. He offered the info up, so his loss.

If that is true, then those FFLs need to be educated. The law does not require that you have a driver's license issued in every state where you can legally purchase firearms, and the law and the ATF recognize that a person can be a resident of multiple states: ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons A seller may become suspicious about a buyer based on an out-of-state license, and choose not to sell, but a blanket rule that an FFL won't sell to someone with an out-of-state id or an id with an incorrect address is overkill IMO.

 

[Big country]

My friend wanted to buy a rifle from academy on Sunday and they wouldn't sell it to him with out his orders. He is stationed out of Hawaii so they would have turned it down anyway right?

 

[TexasRedneck]

ummmm....yeah.

 

[TrooperKbC]

Unless you are a licensed dealer you do not need to see his DL or any other document. The law says you cannot knowingly sell to a person who is ineligible.

It does not say you must KNOW the person lives in the same state. Unless you have some reasonable doubt then you are GTG.

Yes, but there is evidence here that he DOES know. I don't advise working under deception. I would tell him the cost of getting Texas citizenship, buying the gun, then switching his citizenship back to the original. It is the responsibility of the state to decide the requirements of citizenship, so if it's easy but legal that is not your problem.

 

[Hoji]

Sounds like a BATFE fishing trip to me. I too would pass.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Once information is known, to do something that contravenes the law makes you an accomplice. Personally, I refuse to do something in the knowledge that doing so breaks the law, even is "no one will know". Doing so can simply put you at risk of your personal integrity being compromised..

 

[Texas Solo]

- maybe he should just either get Texas ID, or find another way to qualify owning a gun in Texas (like a non-resident CHL).

Just sayin'....

Bingo. He can get a Texas ID from DPS without surrendering his current out of state drivers license. I'd say it's smarter to CYA.

 

[Texas Solo]

My friend wanted to buy a rifle from academy on Sunday and they wouldn't sell it to him with out his orders. He is stationed out of Hawaii so they would have turned it down anyway right?

Correct. His orders must be PCS (permanent change of station) not TDY.

 

[Texas Solo]

I've resided in TX for over a year, but am a resident of NV. As a cosequence I have a NV DL and CCW, but I also have a TX ID. The TX ID is for check cashing, etc. So would you have sold to me?

Yes. You don't have to be a Texas resident. You only have to prove that you reside in Texas. A DL is not required to do this. Utilitiy bills, rent receipts, tax documents, or any State issued ID are all acceptable forms of ID. Plenty of Mexican nationals buy guns here. They need an Alien registration card and another form of ID as posted above. The NICS check always takes a few days, but comes back OK.
This is clearly shown in the fine print on page 4 of a 4473.

 

[TexasRedneck]

If you're going in to buy from one of the "Big Box" stores, simply present your TX ID and say nothing about being a NV resident. You're not breaking any law - but the (generally) idiots that work there seldom really understand the law, and would possibly refuse to sell to you.

 

[Major Woody]

First I don't know why you would want to sell a Springfield Loaded they are great guns, but He could also be a felon from another state, or like everybody said BATF. I would pass on this guy unless you have a way to run his numbers.

 

[navyguy]

First I don't know why you would want to sell a Springfield Loaded they are great guns, but He could also be a felon from another state, or like everybody said BATF. I would pass on this guy unless you have a way to run his numbers.

Yes, it is a nice 1911. And I went back and forth on should I sell it or not. But I want a 2010 Dan Wesson Valor. So, I'm selling this along with my Ruger Secruity Six .357 (already gone) and that will get me withing a couple hundred buck of what I'm wanting. There are just so many that fit in the safe, LOL.

 

[medalguy]

I have this problem sometimes and here's my situation. I have homes in 2 different states. If I want to purchase a gun in my "home" state where I hold a DL, fine. If I want to purchase a gun in my "second" state, I usually show a copy of my auto insurance card for the vehicle I keep in that state. I have had only one dealer refuse to sell to me because I did not have a DL from that state. If you look on the reverse of the 4473 it details the requirements for buying a firearm out of your "home" state-- you must be "a resident of" the second state. No specific definition of "resident" given, just that that state must be your residence at the time of purchase of the firearm. I suppose a dealer has the right to refuse to sell a gun but there is no problem in selling it. It falls on the buyer to be able to prove he is a resident of the state at the time of purchase of the firearm when he signs the 4473. Only if you suspect the buyer is not legally eligible do you have the absolute requirement not to sell to him.

 

[Dcav]

I am sure it is more of a FFL/store's discretion whether or not to require TX ID as opposed to proof of residence. I have not found any FFL holder willing to take proof of residency without TX ID.

 

[JKTex]

I am sure it is more of a FFL/store's discretion whether or not to require TX ID as opposed to proof of residence. I have not found any FFL holder willing to take proof of residency without TX ID.

I'm a little late on this one but, a citizen and an FFL have very different requirements for selling a gun. They can't be compared.

I'll agree with the majority and add, one does NOT need a Texas DL to legally buy a gun in Texas. TX is right, it's just that simple. But being cautious is not a bad thing!! But being cautious doesn't mean making it complicated or hard on yourself. If you have any doubt, move on to another buyer.

 

[Dcav]

Ahh I actually did find a FFL holder to do the transfer through gunbrokers FFL search. Emailed a bunch of em some siad no way others asked for various proof of residency IE apartment lease, bills etc.