SCOTUS NYSRPA v Bruen may cause the National Firearms Act of 1934 to be found unconstitutional

[Axxe55]

Did you miss post #4?

I didn't, but it appears everyone else did!

 

[M14NM illegally seized]

Did you read post #1 attachment? You will understand why this separate thread

 

[leVieux]

>
I wonder. . . .

How this will affect the Draconian and unconstitutional “regulations” mistreating U S Citizens in our territories like USVI and Puerto Rico ?

I hope one of our secret attorneys will respond.

leVieux
.

 

[Axxe55]

Did you read post #1 attachment? You will understand why this separate thread

I read it. Exactly what does it cover not being discussed in the existing thread?

 

[Sergei]

As much as I want this to be a win for us, as much as I want the NFA to be struck down as unconstitutional and our rights to own machineguns and suppressors and the ridiculous "Any Other Weapons" (seriously, just the title on that one should've been a red flag so big and bright it would've made China sue for copyright infringement) restored to their rightful capacity... I just don't see it in the cards. It's been festering on the books for almost 90 years now, and no serious effort has succeeded at dislodging it yet.

I'll remain hopeful, but I'm also going to remain realistic and not hold my breath on it.

 

[Axxe55]

As much as I want this to be a win for us, as much as I want the NFA to be struck down as unconstitutional and our rights to own machineguns and suppressors and the ridiculous "Any Other Weapons" (seriously, just the title on that one should've been a red flag so big and bright it would've made China sue for copyright infringement) restored to their rightful capacity... I just don't see it in the cards. It's been festering on the books for almost 90 years now, and no serious effort has succeeded at dislodging it yet.

I'll remain hopeful, but I'm also going to remain realistic and not hold my breath on it.

Welcome to TGT.

 

[etmo]

... no serious effort has succeeded at dislodging it yet.

Welcome to TGT -- can you list the efforts you consider serious?

 

[Sergei]

Welcome to TGT -- can you list the efforts you consider serious?

US V. Miller (1939) is the primary one that comes to mind. It was the original stress test for the NFA and unfortunately the SCOTUS upheld it.

There was also a rash of laws passed by Montana and... I genuinely forget the list of other states, which would exempt any firearms made within the state (with some exceptions) for use by citizens of the state from any federal regulation, but, much like our own suppressor exemption, I have yet to see anyone actually producing and selling firearms under those laws.

 

[etmo]

US V. Miller (1939) is the primary one that comes to mind. It was the original stress test for the NFA and unfortunately the SCOTUS upheld it.

There was also a rash of laws passed by Montana and... I genuinely forget the list of other states, which would exempt any firearms made within the state (with some exceptions) for use by citizens of the state from any federal regulation, but, much like our own suppressor exemption, I have yet to see anyone actually producing and selling firearms under those laws.

Would you consider eating a spoonful of ice cream to be a revealing physical stress test? Neither would anybody else. And that's about how much stress Miller put on the NFA.

Miller was a joke of a case. Do you know the defense didn't even show up to the Supreme Court to defend the case?
The plaintiff was a criminal, and he had, while the case was going up the ladder, been murdered by another criminal, so there was nobody to give a crap, and the defense just let the case drop. Can you imagine a world where your case makes it before SCOTUS and you care so little you don't even bother to go?

So the government was the only party present before SCOTUS. The government would say whatever they wanted, about how the NFA wasn't gun control, about how the NFA is just a tax, about how the government needs the power to keep the little citizens safe, and there was nobody to disagree with a single word they said.

Nobody gave a crap what happened in Miller because this was still back in the day when people had some inkling what the 2A meant, and their idiot brains could never conceive of a world like ours, where scumbags would actually dispute the meaning of the 2A, and lack the intelligence to see how crucial the 2A is to freedoms everywhere. So the defense just let the case drop on the floor. People sure take things for granted, don't they?

Then an alcoholic, racist, idiot SCOTUS Justice picked it up off the ground, belched out some poorly-considered rhetoric, and Miller was born, and for the better part of a century, it has been used to fuel gun control arguments everywhere. Don't take my word for it, just check the cites.

That Montana law you mention was a pile of stupidity wrapped in some naivete, and that's why it died a horrible death -- slapped down by the 9th Circuit, then denied cert by SCOTUS. Texas' attempt to imitate it at least got rid of the stupidity, maybe that will be enough, but if anyone wants to place a bet on how that will go, I know where I'll put my money.

 

[benenglish]

See the attached PDF file.

That's an interesting way to read Bruen. I'm going to have to go back and re-read a bunch of stuff, now.

Thanks.

I think.

 

[Sergei]

Then an alcoholic, racist, idiot SCOTUS Justice picked it up off the ground, belched out some poorly-considered rhetoric, and Miller was born, and for the better part of a century, it has been used to fuel gun control arguments everywhere.

This is the part I'm worried about. More than anything. I don't worry for the factual basis of the complaints against the NFA, a 5th grader could understand the phrase "Shall not be infringed" in the second amendment. I worry for the competence... no, not even that. I worry about the clearly malicious intent of the people in our government, and their unshakeable determination to do everything in their power to strip us of our rights.

For evidence, all one needs to do is google the legal definition of a receiver, and realize how many firearms do NOT have any single piece legally definable as a receiver. The AR-15 is the prime example (the bolt doesn't travel inside the lower), and yet the ATF has decreed from on high that it does. And somehow they get away with it.

As I said, I want, more than anything, to see the NFA go away for good. My dream is to own a Thompson and convert my 1919A4 back to its correct configuration. But I have less than no faith in our government.

 

[etmo]

yet the ATF has decreed from on high that it does. And somehow they get away with it.

There's a very recent discussion of Chevron deference you should look at.

As I said, I want, more than anything, to see the NFA go away for good.

You also mentioned serious efforts aimed at dislodging the NFA. Hopefully now you see that there has not yet been anything close to a serious effort aimed at dislodging the NFA. It's not going to happen overnight, but with the recent Bruen decision, maybe now the stage is set for that serious effort.

 

[benenglish]

with the recent Bruen decision, maybe now the stage is set for that serious effort.

Mercy, I hope you're right.

 

[etmo]

Mercy, I hope you're right.

I know you think Heller poisoned the well, but if their best argument to defend the NFA is: "But your Honor, Scalia said it would be startling!" then they are skating on thin ice drinking hot coffee.

 

[benenglish]

I know you think Heller poisoned the well, but if their best argument to defend the NFA is: "But your Honor, Scalia said it would be startling!" then they are skating on thin ice drinking hot coffee.

I've had time to think about it. Yes, Heller poisoned the well but it's not necessarily an ironclad precedent. Scalia was making a sidebar statement about something that was not central to the Heller decision and had not been fully developed in arguments before SCOTUS or the lower courts. Therefore, future courts should have an easier time overturning that part of Heller than is normally the case when stare decisis is honored.

At least, as I said, I hope so.

 

[gll]

Is the NFA Unconstitutional? - The Mag Life

A new motion in CRS Firearms' Matt Hoover's defense challenges the NFA's Constitutionality. Can Hoover prevail over the ATF and the NFA?

gunmagwarehouse.com

 

[Axxe55]

 

[gll]

Matt Hoover of CRS Firearms and Justin Ervin of Autokeycard were found guilty...

 

[Eastexasrick]

Shitty defense attorney, or F,,, uped jury?

 

[A1Oni]

See the attached PDF file.
The Bruen case may be the most far reaching SCOTUS decision in my lifetime and I am 74.
It is not only a right to carry case, it is also much, much more.

god willing, only time will tell.