Reloads in Training Classes

[Jon Payne]

I don't understand how this even comes up. It boggles my mind there are people so CHEAP they demand to bring reloads to a training class. Reloads and hollow point ammo aren't allowed in my LTC classes nor Suarez International courses. I don't care how great your reloads are or how long you've been rolling your own. It's always the one's that talk about how safe and reliable their loads are that have problems. Use your handloads/reloads for training on your time. I understand it allows you to shoot more. Break down and buy a case of good quality training ammo. For about $200 you'll have enough for two classes.
#sorrynotsorry

 

[Younggun]

Alrighty then.


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[Jon Payne]

I'm not saying reloads are evil. I am saying there is a time and place. When I'm teaching it's all about the students, the information I'm doing my damnedest to disseminate, and TIME MANAGEMENT. I look for every way possible to foresee and prevent problems. Perhaps after running military and civilian training courses for 18 years I've picked up a thing or two.

 

[BRD@66]

 

[Younggun]

I didn’t mean to imply you did. And it doesn’t bother me either way because I’m gonna be to cheap to pay for the class itself, much less the case of ammo, lol.


I can see why people would ask to bring reloads. Hell, they may have to scrape up money for the price of the class, in which case I don’t think using reloads makes them “cheap”. I also realize that for 115gr FMJ 9mm most aren’t realizing a ton of savings by reloading. And I understand the issues that can arise from it.


I just thought it was funny. I have no back story on people asking you about it. I just see Kramer jerking open the door and going off about reloads in the training class while I’m just sitting here with my bowl of cornflakes.


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[Jon Payne]

I didn’t mean to imply you did. And it doesn’t bother me either way because I’m gonna be to cheap to pay for the class itself, much less the case of ammo, lol.


I can see why people would ask to bring reloads. Hell, they may have to scrape up money for the price of the class, in which case I don’t think using reloads makes them “cheap”. I also realize that for 115gr FMJ 9mm most aren’t realizing a ton of savings by reloading. And I understand the issues that can arise from it.


I just thought it was funny. I have no back story on people asking you about it. I just see Kramer jerking open the door and going off about reloads in the training class while I’m just sitting here with my bowl of cornflakes.


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Read others talking about it and couldn't believe it was a real issue. I was wrong. Of course expense is relative, but training classes really aren't that expensive compared to what many in the gun community spends on guns, ammo, and accessories. I cross posted this across a couple of forums and on FB. Figured it might interest someone or start a discussion.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Last 1k rounds of 9mm I had delivered to my door was $170.
If one is paying for a class, they should be able to afford $85 for 500 rds.

 

[avvidclif]

Not having ever taken a LTC course I was under the impression you had to fire 50 rounds to qualify and that was it???

 

[BRD@66]

Not having ever taken a LTC course I was under the impression you had to fire 50 rounds to qualify and that was it???

plus written test (or at least it was required in the previous century).

 

[Younggun]

Not having ever taken a LTC course I was under the impression you had to fire 50 rounds to qualify and that was it???

LTC yes.

Round count can vary greatly in other training classes though which is probably where the issue of people wanting to use reloads becomes more common.


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[Bozz10mm]

Not having ever taken a LTC course I was under the impression you had to fire 50 rounds to qualify and that was it???

For the LTC class, yes, but there other types of training classes that require substantially more ammo. And we were not allowed to use reloads in our LTC class. Reloads or Monarch.

 

[Jon Payne]

Not having ever taken a LTC course I was under the impression you had to fire 50 rounds to qualify and that was it???

Yes, only 50 rounds to qualify. 20 rounds from 3 yards, 20 rounds from 7 yards, and 10 rounds from 15 yards. I could write the whole breakdown but it's easy enough to google.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Not having ever taken a LTC course I was under the impression you had to fire 50 rounds to qualify and that was it???

I was thinking he meant one of their training courses, but he stated both that and LTC.


ETA: Bozzman beat me to it.
And YG too, lol.

 

[benenglish]

Figured it might interest someone or start a discussion.

Here's an interesting data point, then. I looked up some GunSite courses yesterday and discovered that they allow reloads in all classes.

That surprised...no...shocked me. I can't imagine a large training organization that would tolerate the risk to a smooth-running class by allowing someone to bring their own reloads.

 

[popper]

My LTC range session, gal has a 9 compact, factory ammo, still couldn't get it to quit stove-piping. 15 min of time, tried other ammo and finally used somebody else's pistol. Problem, no lube. And some even were allowed to 'rest' the pistol. It was 110F that day, reload problems would have made it really worse. Couldn't imagine going to a combat type course and waiting for cleared fails. Pay MY $ for results, not waiting for another's problems.

 

[robertc1024]

I'd abide by the rules, but I would also prefer my reloads. I'm sure there are plenty of bubbas that can jack them up, but lumping everybody in that category is kind of irritating. Maybe a better rule would be disqualifying people whose guns don't run.

 

[Jon Payne]

I'd abide by the rules, but I would also prefer my reloads. I'm sure there are plenty of bubbas that can jack them up, but lumping everybody in that category is kind of irritating. Maybe a better rule would be disqualifying people whose guns don't run.

If you paid me $350-$550 for a course would you want me to disqualify you from the class if your reloads don’t pass muster? If you were sent packing would you ever attend my course again? Regardless of how you answer, I know how the majority of students would respond.


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[Moonpie]

If you paid me $350-$550 for a course would you want me to disqualify you from the class if your reloads don’t pass muster? If you were sent packing would you ever attend my course again? Regardless of how you answer, I know how the majority of students would respond.


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Devils advocate: What about the other students who paid $ for the class? Are they supposed to waste their time waiting on the problem children?
TBH, I would not be happy and probably wouldn’t return if you spent the majority of teaching time dealing with MALF’s and not instructing.
I don’t know? Maybe a secondary person dedicated to gun problems?

 

[toddnjoyce]

So long as it’s clearly stated up front, prior to payment, I have no issues either way.

If there’s an unwritten policy that’s only announced after the course has started, then it’s a whole different ball of wax.


Keep Calm and RTFU

 

[benenglish]

If you paid me $350-$550 for a course would you want me to disqualify you from the class if your reloads don’t pass muster? If you were sent packing would you ever attend my course again?

I think that's key to why Gunsite can allow reloads. They don't have to disqualify anyone or send anyone packing. If the reloads are problematic, Gunsite can easily and quickly sell the student a case of new ammo.

If you're running a class where there's no FFL on the premises ready to sell ammo, I see no logical way to proceed other than to prohibit handloads.