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Red dots on carry guns

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  • nickgibson72

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    I apologize if this has been discussed in a previous thread. I am curious what everyone thinks about having red dots on carry guns. This seems to be the new fad in the industry. I have yet to jump on, but I'm not against the idea either. I have seen some pretty nice builds with them, especially the CZs.
     

    Sasquatch

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    Well, my primary carry pistol is in the hands of TX Arsenal right now getting slide work to mount a red dot.

    Its the direction pretty much everyone is going to. The benefits outweigh the negatives, and quality red dots have come down in price to be affordable to most. Five or ten more years, and "defensive" pistols, I think, are universally going to either come equipped with red dots, or they will all at least be optics ready.

    What would be super, is if there were optics ready designed guns that would allow to cowitness with standard sights, instead of necessitating suppressor height sights.
     

    Axxe55

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    I think red dot optics on a pistol are great, for some uses of a pistol, but not for one that is carried for self defense.

    One, it limits options for holsters and method of carry. There is always the option of custom made holster to accommodate the pistol with a red dot I suppose.

    It's another item that could be a point of failure at a very critical time. In a competition, or casual target shooting, not big deal. But in life or death event, it could be your life.

    In the unlikely event that the pistol is ever used, most likely the sights, (any sights) are actually going o be used. In most cases, the encounter of the attack are going to be up close and personal, and sights are just not a high priority IMO.
     

    nickgibson72

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    Well, my primary carry pistol is in the hands of TX Arsenal right now getting slide work to mount a red dot.

    Its the direction pretty much everyone is going to. The benefits outweigh the negatives, and quality red dots have come down in price to be affordable to most. Five or ten more years, and "defensive" pistols, I think, are universally going to either come equipped with red dots, or they will all at least be optics ready.

    What would be super, is if there were optics ready designed guns that would allow to cowitness with standard sights, instead of necessitating suppressor height sights.
    Ya my Canik came with the optics cut in the slide and the plates for it. Not sure if I like it enough to pay for the red dot yet.
     

    nickgibson72

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    I think red dot optics on a pistol are great, for some uses of a pistol, but not for one that is carried for self defense.

    One, it limits options for holsters and method of carry. There is always the option of custom made holster to accommodate the pistol with a red dot I suppose.

    It's another item that could be a point of failure at a very critical time. In a competition, or casual target shooting, not big deal. But in life or death event, it could be your life.

    In the unlikely event that the pistol is ever used, most likely the sights, (any sights) are actually going o be used. In most cases, the encounter of the attack are going to be up close and personal, and sights are just not a high priority IMO.
    That makes sense. In a self defense situation, I can see the sights being ignored when it's a draw and fire deal.
     

    Axxe55

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    That makes sense. In a self defense situation, I can see the sights being ignored when it's a draw and fire deal.
    In the manner of such an event, that happens in a split second, I can't see anyone handicapping themselves is trying to spend time acquiring any type of sights, much less a red dot sight.

    One of the practice techniques I use is what some call instinctive shooting. Not even using the sights whatsoever. Draw, point, and fire.
     

    Sasquatch

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    I think red dot optics on a pistol are great, for some uses of a pistol, but not for one that is carried for self defense.

    One, it limits options for holsters and method of carry. There is always the option of custom made holster to accommodate the pistol with a red dot I suppose.

    It's another item that could be a point of failure at a very critical time. In a competition, or casual target shooting, not big deal. But in life or death event, it could be your life.

    In the unlikely event that the pistol is ever used, most likely the sights, (any sights) are actually going o be used. In most cases, the encounter of the attack are going to be up close and personal, and sights are just not a high priority IMO.

    Except red dots on pistols serve the same as red dots on rifles. You practice to draw and bring the gun up - unlike trying to get perfect sight alignment, you bring the gun up and the dot is just "there" - once you practice with them the dots will be faster and more intuitive.

    The same argument was used for rifle optics - "one more point of failure" - but today very few people run naked / iron sight rifles for "serious" business. Red dots are the most common sights used. The sights themselves have also gotten to the point where even cheaper stuff is more rugged than top tier sights from days gone by, and today's top tier stuff is pretty incredible. The sights are getting smaller, lighter, and more durable.

    As the technology progresses, pistol sights are likewise going to get more durable, even though the current crop of sights, even relatively inexpensive stuff like Holosun will take quite a beating. If you can afford something like the Aimpoint ACRO or Trijicon RMR, you're even better off, but if you can't save for or afford an Aimpoint or Trijicon sight, the Chinesium Holosun stuff is very durable and unlikely to fail when you need it.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    …What would be super, is if there were optics ready designed guns that would allow to cowitness with standard sights, instead of necessitating suppressor height sights.

    Tough engineering problem to solve for. Only so much slide material can he removed before structural concerns emerge. The optic would have to make up that difference.
     

    Axxe55

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    Except red dots on pistols serve the same as red dots on rifles. You practice to draw and bring the gun up - unlike trying to get perfect sight alignment, you bring the gun up and the dot is just "there" - once you practice with them the dots will be faster and more intuitive.

    The same argument was used for rifle optics - "one more point of failure" - but today very few people run naked / iron sight rifles for "serious" business. Red dots are the most common sights used. The sights themselves have also gotten to the point where even cheaper stuff is more rugged than top tier sights from days gone by, and today's top tier stuff is pretty incredible. The sights are getting smaller, lighter, and more durable.

    As the technology progresses, pistol sights are likewise going to get more durable, even though the current crop of sights, even relatively inexpensive stuff like Holosun will take quite a beating. If you can afford something like the Aimpoint ACRO or Trijicon RMR, you're even better off, but if you can't save for or afford an Aimpoint or Trijicon sight, the Chinesium Holosun stuff is very durable and unlikely to fail when you need it.
    I don't totally disagree with your assessment, but just not with a carry pistol.

    I counter that with "instinctive shooting" that I practice, where sights are not even used, or considered for practice. That is with even just conventional open sights that most all pistols are equipped with.

    I'll also offer as a counter-point, that drawing a pistol equipped with a red dot could add time to execute the draw, or even hinder the draw. Then factor in the availability of holsters able to accommodate a pistol with a red dot. IMO it adds a level of difficulty that should not be added for such situations.
     

    TxStetson

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    Sig's Romeo Zero comes with iron sights on the rear which line up perfectly to co-witness on theP365XL. I have no idea what else they align with, or how durable the Romeo Zero is but time will tell.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    Sig's Romeo Zero comes with iron sights on the rear which line up perfectly to co-witness on theP365XL. I have no idea what else they align with, or how durable the Romeo Zero is but time will tell.

    I̶s̶n̶’̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶m̶a̶c̶h̶i̶n̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶R̶0̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶c̶o̶r̶p̶o̶r̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶r̶o̶n̶ ̶s̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶m̶o̶v̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶v̶e̶r̶?̶ ̶

    I should’ve read closer. Yes, the 365 is an example of a fairly proprietary solution. I haven’t checked, but I’m curious if the front sight is the same height on the non-milled slides as it is on the milled ones.
     
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    pronstar

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    I’m now a fan. Have a Vortex Viper sitting in my safe, waiting for a chance to get it mounted.

    Still not sure what pistol to put it on…my plan is to sell all my pistols and buy a Stacatto, so I may just wait a bit.

    But I also really want an aimpoint acro so…


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    Sasquatch

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    I’m now a fan. Have a Vortex Viper sitting in my safe, waiting for a chance to get it mounted.

    Still not sure what pistol to put it on…my plan is to sell all my pistols and buy a Stacatto, so I may just wait a bit.

    But I also really want an aimpoint acro so…


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    You're selling *all* your pistols to fund the staccato? You're not going to at least keep a Glock around to ward off @Moonpie ? I mean, I hear if you leave the Glock hung over your door frame, he can't enter your house. Will keep that Staccato nice and safe :laughing:
     

    pronstar

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    You're selling *all* your pistols to fund the staccato? You're not going to at least keep a Glock around to ward off @Moonpie ? I mean, I hear if you leave the Glock hung over your door frame, he can't enter your house. Will keep that Staccato nice and safe :laughing:

    I do have a custom G19 that I bought/had made for the wife that I’ll likely keep. Mostly because I’ll never get what I have into it.

    So I might put the viper on it, then put an acro on the stacatto.

    But I’ve been so busy with the boy and new job that I barely have time to breathe…


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    Axxe55

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    I do have a custom G19 that I bought/had made for the wife that I’ll likely keep. Mostly because I’ll never get what I have into it.

    So I might put the viper on it, then put an acro on the stacatto.

    But I’ve been so busy with the boy and new job that I barely have time to breathe…


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    How is Baby Pronstar doing?
     

    Mowingmaniac 24/7

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    I think Red Dots on pistols for target shooting are great.

    On a carry pistol?

    No, unless you're a pro shooter with many, many hours of practice where you can acquire your red dot as quickly as iron sights, but few of us practice to that level.
     

    TexasBB

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    I switched to a Staccato P DPO with a DeltaPoint Pro several months ago for my daily Carry and absolutely love it. It is not hard to find holsters and i notice no discernible difference in draw speed. The main reason i switched was due to eyesight loss due to age. I’ve found it much easier to pick up the red dot. Mine came with co-witnessing green fiber optic sights that i initially used as my first sight picture and then w old transition to the red dot until i got accustomed to it. Now, the dot is in my sight picture the moment the gun comes up. You have to practice with it, like anything else.


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