Questions about bullet types for autoloading pistols.

[d_holliday]

The old wisdom used to be that ammo for autoloading handguns had to be full-metal-jacket round-nose for reliable feeding. I believe that is why the 45 Automatic was issued with such ammo in our armed services.

That said, is this still the case with today's modern autoloaders including the Smith & Wesson M&P Shield M2.0 lineup in 9mm or .380 ACP?

Some states like NJ have outlawed hollow-points for non-cop citizens. What would be the next best non-HP ammo type for a modern Smith Shield nine that both cycles reliably and is a good bad-guy stopper?

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Ball ammo has worked for over 100 years. And all guns shoot it fine.

 

[Byrd666]

Have you read the owners manual of the firearms you own to see what the manufacturer recommends?

 

[rotor]

I am reloading Lehigh Extreme Defense but have not done the .380 or 9mm yet. I have done 32 acp and they work great in a KelTec p32. Have not had a problem with HP rounds in my .380 or 9mm. If I lived in a state that did not allow HP I would load the Lehigh Defense as my defensive round and ball ammo for everything else. I would not use HP for 32 ACP, only ball or Lehigh.

 

[Dawico]

For NJ (screw them) look at the expanding type FMJ rounds. Can't recall who makes them.

Most modern firearms cycle hollow points just fine.

 

[Axxe55]

Most modern pistols will usually feed just about any ammo that you put through them. There are always going to be some that are picky about ammo selection.

But also bullet design and such has come a long way over the years too.

 

[zackmars]

No. Get modern JHP ammo. Federal HST, speer gold dot, winchester ranger, etc.

Ball ammo used to be the go to for .45acp because milspec 1911's have trouble running hollowpoints. Modern firearms, and even properly tuned 1911's have no issue feeding HP's

 

[Army 1911]

[QUOTE="zackmars, post: 2142356,
Ball ammo used to be the go to for .45acp because milspec 1911's have trouble running hollowpoints. Modern firearms, and even properly tuned 1911's have no issue feeding HP's[/QUOTE]

That's odd, my WW1 and WW2 1911s run HP and wadcutters flawlessly.

They must be defective, eh.

 

[avvidclif]

MeThinks ball/fmj ammo is used by the military because of the Geneva Convention.

 

[General Zod]

Hollowpoint ammunition works just fine in the vast majority of semiautomatic handguns you're going to run into. The 'old wisdom' isn't always all that wise...sometimes I suspect it was an excuse for poor cleaning and maintenance.

 

[zackmars]

MeThinks ball/fmj ammo is used by the military because of the Geneva Convention.

No. The Geneva convention deals with the treatment of POWs and civilians during wartime. The Hauge convention deals with weapons used in warfare, hollow points amongst them.

The US did not sign the Hauge convention. We can use what we want

 

[zackmars]

[QUOTE="zackmars, post: 2142356,
Ball ammo used to be the go to for .45acp because milspec 1911's have trouble running hollowpoints. Modern firearms, and even properly tuned 1911's have no issue feeding HP's

That's odd, my WW1 and WW2 1911s run HP and wadcutters flawlessly.

They must be defective, eh.[/QUOTE]

Clearly, your two examples means the entire industry built around getting 1911's to reliably feed HP's is wrong.

You are lucky, congrats, but your two pistols isn't proving or disproving anything

 

[navysooner]

Ball ammo in a 380 will make a hole. The problem is unless that hole hits something worth hitting all it is, is a hole.
The fudds saying ball ammo is just fine for self defense have never used ball ammo in self defense.

 

[satx78247]

To All,

Even 9x19mm autoloading pistols that were designed for FMJ only usually feed 115 or 123 JHP flawlessly. = My "early production" SIG-SAUER P6 is "said by the factory" to NOT feed JHP well but mine has fired well over 800 rounds of HORNADY CRITICAL DEFENSE in both 115 & 124 grain without a single failure to feed/FTF/eject.

yours, satx

 

[EZ-E]

IMO ....
If feeding issues are happening with hp's .... 1 of 2 things. The feedramp has edges & the hp nose is catching. The other is bullet shape & how it wants to feed.

I have a PMR30 that wouldn't cycle hornandy critical defense reliability so i lightly filed the feed ranp , then polished & now it shoots all hp bullets.

 

[Axxe55]

Ball ammo in a 380 will make a hole. The problem is unless that hole hits something worth hitting all it is, is a hole.
The fudds saying ball ammo is just fine for self defense have never used ball ammo in self defense.

Sometimes, you use what you happen to have. Shot placement is much more important than the type of ammo used. Hits with "ball" ammo trump misses with high dollar self defense ammo any day of the week.

I'll bet you wouldn't be as confident to say that if you were the one being shot at with 380 ball ammo.

 

[d_holliday]

Have you read the owners manual of the firearms you own to see what the manufacturer recommends?

I don't have such a manual because I don't own such a handgun, yet. A better question might be, "What do American police departments usually use in their 9mm M&P's?" I might email Smith & Wesson and ask them the ammo/bullet types recommended. I don't handload so I have to find the best factory ammo that works and is legal. I don't know why a stupid state like NJ would outlaw HP for civilians anyway. Police departments chose this back in the '70's for safety and public liability concerns. It has maximum stopping power with low penetration, supposedly. It was great for police .38 Special revolvers and revolvers are not fussy about bullet types since they have no feeding ramp. I am considering a 9mm Shield for concealed carry and still need a decent man-stopping factory round that won't jam. The 9mm has a smaller cross-section like the .38 Special that is smaller than the .40-something calibers so something that expands well and still feeds well in 9mm is of the essence.

Back when I was in the army at Fort Sill, Ok, I brought some Winchester HP rounds in along with my Smith revolver in .45 Colt to my unit for the sergeant to check into the arms room as that was the rule. Another sergeant called me a "knucklehead" (I was only a young PFC then) for possessing HP rounds and that the military ranges would not allow them. I never intended to shoot my civilian gun on the military post anyway. I'm retired myself from the service and my wife is stationed at Hood and she will be retired in a year. I don't know why HP rounds would be banned on a pistol range and what the logic behind that would be. Like a lot of police officers, a lot of military personnel are not gun aficionados even though weapons are the tools of their trade. Like many stupid politicians, many cops and soldiers don't even know a buttstock from a peep sight like that sergeant who gave me a ribbing for having hollow points. He probably perceived "special" ammunition as "especially dangerous". Certainly Glaser safety slugs are special but they are especially safe. They are carried by pilots and sky marshals so as to not penetrate the aluminum skin of airplanes to decompress the cabin but can still bring a bad guy down.

Too many idiots in the mainstream media and in politics have used this term "cop-killer bullet" rather loosely. Any bullet instrumental in rendering a policeman dead is a "cop-killer bullet". That is, any bullet used by a cop-killer is a cop-killer bullet.

 

[satx78247]

Sometimes, you use what you happen to have. Shot placement is much more important than the type of ammo used. Hits with "ball" ammo trump misses with high dollar self defense ammo any day of the week.

I'll bet you wouldn't be as confident to say that if you were the one being shot at with 380 ball ammo.

Axxe55; navysooner,

Personally, I believe that ball ammo is FINE for self-defense IF the caliber of the slug is BIG/heavy enough. - I have used .45ACP Government issue 230 grain hard-ball for SD & it worked well on the "target".

May I remind everyone that standard US ball ammo worked well to STOP "drugged up" Moro Pirates in their tracks (Only brass-case 00 buck worked as well on the Moros, according to MG Joseph Wheeler, CSA Cavalry & USVC.) & also worked well, numerous times, on CHICOMs in human wave attacks.
(My Uncle Jimmy was a SGT of US paratroops in Korea & he exchanged a .30 caliber M2 Carbine for a TSG, that he got from a Greek soldier & said that there was nothing better at STOPPING human wave attacks at close range than the TSG & .45ACP.)

yours, satx

 

[jrbfishn]

A bullet in a vital area is deadly. Period. It does not matter what design that bullet is.
I have several 9mm pistols and all shoot both jacketed and every HP I have put in them. Including 90grn HPs and 100grn FMJ intended for .380s.
That being said, I have seen some get picky about what size bullet and what design bullet the will cycle reliably.
The best one for the one you get? The one it shoots the most reliably and accurate that you are confident with. It does not matter what design the bullet is if you can not hit a vital spot when you need to. Period.
Try telling combat vets that a FMJ is not deadly. And get prepared to be laughed at.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[satx78247]

I don't have such a manual because I don't own such a handgun, yet. A better question might be, "What do American police departments usually use in their 9mm M&P's?" I might email Smith & Wesson and ask them the ammo/bullet types recommended. I don't handload so I have to find the best factory ammo that works and is legal. I don't know why a stupid state like NJ would outlaw HP for civilians anyway. Police departments chose this back in the '70's for safety and public liability concerns. It has maximum stopping power with low penetration, supposedly. It was great for police .38 Special revolvers and revolvers are not fussy about bullet types since they have no feeding ramp. I am considering a 9mm Shield for concealed carry and still need a decent man-stopping factory round that won't jam. The 9mm has a smaller cross-section like the .38 Special that is smaller than the .40-something calibers so something that expands well and still feeds well in 9mm is of the essence.

Back when I was in the army at Fort Sill, Ok, I brought some Winchester HP rounds in along with my Smith revolver in .45 Colt to my unit for the sergeant to check into the arms room as that was the rule. Another sergeant called me a "knucklehead" (I was only a young PFC then) for possessing HP rounds and that the military ranges would not allow them. I never intended to shoot my civilian gun on the military post anyway. I'm retired myself from the service and my wife is stationed at Hood and she will be retired in a year. I don't know why HP rounds would be banned on a pistol range and what the logic behind that would be. Like a lot of police officers, a lot of military personnel are not gun aficionados even though weapons are the tools of their trade. Like many stupid politicians, many cops and soldiers don't even know a buttstock from a peep sight like that sergeant who gave me a ribbing for having hollow points. He probably perceived "special" ammunition as "especially dangerous". Certainly Glaser safety slugs are special but they are especially safe. They are carried by pilots and sky marshals so as to not penetrate the aluminum skin of airplanes to decompress the cabin but can still bring a bad guy down.

Too many idiots in the mainstream media and in politics have used this term "cop-killer bullet" rather loosely. Any bullet instrumental in rendering a policeman dead is a "cop-killer bullet". That is, any bullet used by a cop-killer is a cop-killer bullet.

d_holliday,

I was an Army Range Master for well over 15 years (my license says "indefinite" where an expiration date usually is.) & I wish I had a nickel for every round of HP ammo that has been fired on Army pistol ranges. - I suspect that your sergeant was "jerking your chain" OR that is a local policy.

yours, satx
USAMPR, Retired