Question about LTC's and 4473

[MTA]

What exactly happens to a 4473 when you provide your LTC ?
Also does anyone know the piece of legislation that allows this to happen(bypassing background check by having an LTC)? I would like to read it or get a summary on it.

Still a little confused on this whole thing although I have bought idk how many firearms with my LTC now.

 

[txinvestigator]

What exactly happens to a 4473 when you provide your LTC ?
Also does anyone know the piece of legislation that allows this to happen(bypassing background check by having an LTC)? I would like to read it or get a summary on it.

Still a little confused on this whole thing although I have bought idk how many firearms with my LTC now.

The same thing happens to the 4473 as when you don't have a LTC. It gets filed away. Your LTC number and Date of Expiration goes on the 4473.

Code of Federal Regulations
478.102 Sales or deliveries of firearms on and after November 30, 1998

1. a.Background check.

d.Exceptions to NICS check.The provisions of paragraph (a) of this section shall not apply if—

1. 
   1.The transferee has presented to the licensee a valid permit or license that—
   1. 
      i.Allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm;
      
      
   2. 
      ii.Was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and
      
      
   3. 
      iii.The law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law: Provided, That on and after November 30, 1998, the information available to such official includes the NICS;

https://atf-eregs.18f.gov/478-102/2016-12100#478-102-d

 

[MTA]

The same thing happens to the 4473 as when you don't have a LTC. It gets filed away. Your LTC number and Date of Expiration goes on the 4473.


https://atf-eregs.18f.gov/478-102/2016-12100#478-102-d

Do the 4473's go to the atf? or do they stay at the gun store? Thanks

 

[Dred]

Do the 4473's go to the atf? or do they stay at the gun store? Thanks

They stay at the FFL. They can be reviewed there by gubmnt.

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[BRD@66]

IIRC, 20 years at the gun store.

 

[MTA]

IIRC, 20 years at the gun store.

After 20 years do they get throw out?

 

[jrbfishn]

4473s stay with the FFL for 20 years unless the FFL goes out of business. At such time, they are sent to ATF in Atlanta for storage. After 20 years,IORC, it is up to the FFL to retain or destroy them.
If the ATF or the FBI wants a copy for an investigation for law enforcement, they will call and request a photo copy. If they need the original for evidence, they should show up with a warrant and paperwork to show what happened to the 4473 since the FFL is required by law to have it.
If you use your LTC instead of the backround check, unless your gun is involved in a crime and recovered of the FFL closes, they will never know what you bought. At least if you buy with the paper form. I am not sure what access the have with the electronic system. But an FFL is still required to keep the electronic form printed and on file for 20 years.



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[MTA]

4473s stay with the FFL for 20 years unless the FFL goes out of business. At such time, they are sent to ATF in Atlanta for storage. After 20 years,IORC, it is up to the FFL to retain or destroy them.
If the ATF or the FBI wants a copy for an investigation for law enforcement, they will call and request a photo copy. If they need the original for evidence, they should show up with a warrant and paperwork to show what happened to the 4473 since the FFL is required by law to have it.
If you use your LTC instead of the backround check, unless your gun is involved in a crime and recovered of the FFL closes, they will never know what you bought. At least if you buy with the paper form. I am not sure what access the have with the electronic system. But an FFL is still required to keep the electronic form printed and on file for 20 years.



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Thank you thats good info

 

[45tex]

The 4473 is de facto gun registration. They are stored at the FFL until the FFL quits. Then the ATF gets them forever. This is what the lefties call the gun show loophole. No record of private transfers. A great reason to buy used.
All your LTC means is the DPS had done a background check. Saves you a few minutes, while they call to see if you are worthy.

 

[Frank59]

I know a good number of people who think all store bought gun transactions are entered into Uncle Sam's electronic data base.

 

[baboon]

The 4473 is de facto gun registration. They are stored at the FFL until the FFL quits. Then the ATF gets them forever. This is what the lefties call the gun show loophole. No record of private transfers. A great reason to buy used.
All your LTC means is the DPS had done a background check. Saves you a few minutes, while they call to see if you are worthy.

If a gun turns up used in a crime & the seriel numbers are intact there is going to be a reverse trace made on the gun. You don't want to be the person telling BATFE agent investigating I sold it FTF, but I don't know who to.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

If a gun turns up used in a crime & the seriel numbers are intact there is going to be a reverse trace made on the gun. You don't want to be the person telling BATFE agent investigating I sold it FTF, but I don't know who to.

So, you are saying people should get a bill of sale?

 

[Renegade]

If a gun turns up used in a crime & the seriel numbers are intact there is going to be a reverse trace made on the gun.

Most crime guns are NOT traced.

IYou don't want to be the person telling BATFE agent investigating I sold it FTF, but I don't know who to.

Why not? I did, and the gun was used in a murder. Nothing burger.

 

[MTA]

So, you are saying people should get a bill of sale?

here we go hahah

 

[Southpaw]

If a gun turns up used in a crime & the seriel numbers are intact there is going to be a reverse trace made on the gun. You don't want to be the person telling BATFE agent investigating I sold it FTF, but I don't know who to.

 

[baboon]

View attachment 178848

Believe what you want. I could tell you a story about a Bushmaster AR used in an aggravated crime. Dealer gave it to his son, who traded it to a guy for work done, that traded it to a dealer @ a Conroe gun show.

When a ATF agents says it was used in an aggrevated crime & breaks that down for you if your to stupid to know what it means then attaches you as last in possession shit gets real.

 

[mp_tx]

Believe what you want. I could tell you a story about a Bushmaster AR used in an aggravated crime. Dealer gave it to his son, who traded it to a guy for work done, that traded it to a dealer @ a Conroe gun show.

When a ATF agents says it was used in an aggrevated crime & breaks that down for you if your to stupid to know what it means then attaches you as last in possession shit gets real.

Conroe dealer should have 4473 on sale of said rifle. Trace would start there. Previous owners inconsequential.


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[Renegade]

Believe what you want. I could tell you a story about a Bushmaster AR used in an aggravated crime. Dealer gave it to his son, who traded it to a guy for work done, that traded it to a dealer @ a Conroe gun show.

When a ATF agents says it was used in an aggrevated crime & breaks that down for you if your to stupid to know what it means then attaches you as last in possession shit gets real.

Shit only gets real if Conroe Dealer does not have a disposition record for the gun. Everyone else is in the clear.

 

[baboon]

Conroe dealer should have 4473 on sale of said rifle. Trace would start there. Previous owners inconsequential.


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If the dealer is still in business he has not turned in 4473. Guns traced in crimes go reverse from manufacture, wholesaler, dealers.

 

[Renegade]

If the dealer is still in business he has not turned in 4473.

Does not matter. Investigator can easily check his books to see how he disposed it.