Lynx Defense

Powder charge vs barrel length

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • TipBledsoe

    TGT Addict
    TGT Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Jun 28, 2020
    3,733
    96
    LaVernia TX
    First things first - I must admit, it's been some years since I was big into reloading. But the lack of ammo availability and the high cost has had me thinking about dustig off my equipment and getting into reloading again.

    The many different variables involved in working up the perfect reload for e given firearm is the challenge that makes reloading the most attractive for me. But having been involved in cowboy action shooting (CAS) the past several years has me thinking most about the variable of barrel length because I shoot the same 45LC loads in my 24" barrel lever action rifle as I do in my 5" barrel single action revolvers. This being a situation calling for quite a compromise; conversely the typical reloader would optimize loads for specific firearms, having a set barrel length.

    Ive seen reloading data tables that define a specific SAMI barrel, but I've never seen a data table that accounts for various barrel lengths - is anyone aware of such tables?
    Hurley's Gold
     

    TexMex247

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    May 11, 2009
    3,369
    96
    Leander(NW Austin)
    Can't say I've seen any. Probably just too many variables like chamber type ie revolver vs pistol or rifle, quality of rifling or style and so much more. Odd thing about those cas guns, it's harder to work out reliable bunny fart loads than it is to push them fast. I imagine it would take a dedicated powder like trailboss to work in the range you'd want for both guns.
     

    Axxe55

    Retiretgtshit stirrer
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2019
    47,034
    96
    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    I have seen some in the past, but mostly were for testing purposes, and with the caveat, that they were rough approximations of velocity changes. That every gun was different, and changing one component, (type or weight of powder charge, bullet type or weight, ect.) could change the velocity as much as the barrel length.
     

    TxStetson

    Opinionated and Irritable
    TGT Supporter
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    May 9, 2013
    10,056
    96
    The Big Country
    First things first - I must admit, it's been some years since I was big into reloading. But the lack of ammo availability and the high cost has had me thinking about dustig off my equipment and getting into reloading again.

    The many different variables involved in working up the perfect reload for e given firearm is the challenge that makes reloading the most attractive for me. But having been involved in cowboy action shooting (CAS) the past several years has me thinking most about the variable of barrel length because I shoot the same 45LC loads in my 24" barrel lever action rifle as I do in my 5" barrel single action revolvers. This being a situation calling for quite a compromise; conversely the typical reloader would optimize loads for specific firearms, having a set barrel length.

    Ive seen reloading data tables that define a specific SAMI barrel, but I've never seen a data table that accounts for various barrel lengths - is anyone aware of such tables?
    Most reloading manuals have loads listed for pistol and carbine rifle for 357M, 44M, and 45 Colt. So take the min and max loads for your powder from each section and pick a charge that falls in between both sets of loads. Adjust accordingly.
     

    Dawico

    Uncoiled
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Oct 15, 2009
    38,009
    96
    Lampasas, Texas
    First things first - I must admit, it's been some years since I was big into reloading. But the lack of ammo availability and the high cost has had me thinking about dustig off my equipment and getting into reloading again.

    The many different variables involved in working up the perfect reload for e given firearm is the challenge that makes reloading the most attractive for me. But having been involved in cowboy action shooting (CAS) the past several years has me thinking most about the variable of barrel length because I shoot the same 45LC loads in my 24" barrel lever action rifle as I do in my 5" barrel single action revolvers. This being a situation calling for quite a compromise; conversely the typical reloader would optimize loads for specific firearms, having a set barrel length.

    Ive seen reloading data tables that define a specific SAMI barrel, but I've never seen a data table that accounts for various barrel lengths - is anyone aware of such tables?
    What are you trying to do exactly?

    I get you want loads as low recoil as possible for CAS without sticking them in the barrel.

    SAAMI doesn't care much about velocity as there are too many variables. Pressure is the big concern.

    Personally I would develop different loads for each firearm and go with it.
     

    TipBledsoe

    TGT Addict
    TGT Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Jun 28, 2020
    3,733
    96
    LaVernia TX
    I have a good “compromise load” for the CAS bunny fart load (love that figure of speech @TexMex247) using Trail Boss (nice guess TexMex and @Axxe55). This was the easy part, as most CAS reloaders are more than happy to share their recipe.

    What I’m trying to do exactly:
    The CAS load situation heightened my concern for barrel length vs load tables.
    I have a Speer reloading table for 357 that specifies use of 6” barrel, but I have a 357 with a 4” barrel. Using a load designed for a 6” barrel in my revolver with a 4” barrel would be safe, but it would be wasting powder and most likely decreasing accuracy, IMO. It would be extremely useful to know, of the loads shown in the table, how many inches of barrel does the powder charge build pressure.
     

    TipBledsoe

    TGT Addict
    TGT Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Jun 28, 2020
    3,733
    96
    LaVernia TX
    Quickload will tell you percentage of powder burned of your charge. You can adjust barrel length and charge and watch it change.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    This appears to be exactly the kind of info I’m looking for. I’ll check it out. Thank you @dee
     

    toddnjoyce

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Sep 27, 2017
    19,285
    96
    Boerne
    What are you trying to do exactly?

    I get you want loads as low recoil as possible for CAS without sticking them in the barrel.

    SAAMI doesn't care much about velocity as there are too many variables. Pressure is the big concern.

    Personally I would develop different loads for each firearm and go with it.

    For me, CAS is less about recoil management and more about velocity management. Don’t want to push something too hot at a close-in metal target. FrEx, a typical CAS shooter is running the same caliber in both pistol at ranges from 7-15 yards, and rifle at 25-100+ yds.

    With all the targets, the goal is reliably hit or drop them without splattering lead back to the shooting line AND not exceeding the 1000fps limit for pistol or 1400fps limit for rifle. There are a bunch of guys running .38/.357 load running in the 700-850 fps range for pistol and 1000fps for rifle.
     

    dee

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 22, 2008
    2,468
    66
    Red River Way
    This appears to be exactly the kind of info I’m looking for. I’ll check it out. Thank you @dee
    It's a super handy software program. Cost can be a turndown for some but it costs about as much as buying several manuals but has a more infinite amount of information available.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     

    Deavis

    Active Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Oct 20, 2011
    827
    26
    Austin
    I have a good “compromise load” for the CAS bunny fart load (love that figure of speech @TexMex247) using Trail Boss (nice guess TexMex and @Axxe55). This was the easy part, as most CAS reloaders are more than happy to share their recipe.

    What I’m trying to do exactly:
    The CAS load situation heightened my concern for barrel length vs load tables.
    I have a Speer reloading table for 357 that specifies use of 6” barrel, but I have a 357 with a 4” barrel. Using a load designed for a 6” barrel in my revolver with a 4” barrel would be safe, but it would be wasting powder and most likely decreasing accuracy, IMO. It would be extremely useful to know, of the loads shown in the table, how many inches of barrel does the powder charge build pressure.

    Trailboss is wicked fast, gone almost immediately and completely even in short barrels but your 357Mag... load it with H110 and neither a 4" or 6" will get close to finishing it off, no prayer. Quick loads is fun to play with and I guess if that does it for you, it had all the variables to play with.

    The fastest powder that generates a safe peak pressure will generally give you the best efficiency regardless of barrel length (if powder burn is your measure of efficiency). You may not be happy with velocity but life is about trade offs! You will see peak pressure occurs very quickly, the question is how much area can you generate under the curve before the bullet leaves.
     

    TEXAS "All or nothing"

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 24, 2021
    922
    76
    Texas
    Trailboss is wicked fast, gone almost immediately and completely even in short barrels but your 357Mag... load it with H110 and neither a 4" or 6" will get close to finishing it off, no prayer. Quick loads is fun to play with and I guess if that does it for you, it had all the variables to play with.

    The fastest powder that generates a safe peak pressure will generally give you the best efficiency regardless of barrel length (if powder burn is your measure of efficiency). You may not be happy with velocity but life is about trade offs! You will see peak pressure occurs very quickly, the question is how much area can you generate under the curve before the bullet leaves.
    Don't get me started with QL!
     

    TEXAS "All or nothing"

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 24, 2021
    922
    76
    Texas
    Do you like or dislike QL and why?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I use it as a template, but don't trust it. I've used published load data and it's extremely erratic on pressure. Some data will show up to 150% charge compared to other data with fill %. I do know it's estimated, but that's way off. I have successfully created load data of high pressure loads of unpublished powder for certain cartridges. I haven't checked it against powder volume or know bur rate that seems to be off? As far as like or dislike I'm on the fence. They are terrible on updating info(newer powder, bullets and cartridges). I going to purchase testing equipment that has a sensor that glues to the barrel that gives pressure and other info. 1-2k for the equipment. I do have a way to get better powder compression(fill rate) with a modified case. I've seen methods by using water and calculating what it could hold.
     

    popper

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 23, 2013
    3,002
    96
    GRT is free and like QL. They are an estimate. Thing to watch about accuracy is muzzle GAS velocity. And that little gap between cylinder and barrel for the revolver. You really want the powder to burn before the muzzle and for pressure there to be low. Enter fast pistol powders.
     
    Top Bottom