Politics of the FTF sale between Texans

[45tex]

Looking around gun classifieds and keep running into statements about the seller requiring VALID ID and a BILL OF SALE, because they as they state they FOLLOW ALL TEXAS LAWS. That implies the rest are law breakers
My challenge today? If you know of some law that requires the above please post it here! I need to be informed of THE LAW. Last I read neither was required. I may be ill informed of the facts.
Help me out, prove this requirement. God above knows more gun laws make us safer. . . NOT !

To tell the truth I like a bill of sale and as to ID, I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Its a matter of CYA to me. I just want a record for me only of the disposition of any gun I once owned. But to me its CYA all the way, not THE LAW

 

[nalioth]

The only laws you must follow are

• Not selling to a known prohibited person.
You are covered in the above by asking the person: "Are you prohibited from owning firearms?". If they say "No", you've covered your butt, whether they're lying or not [of course, selling to someone wearing an orange jumpsuit who says they're not prohibited might be looked at kinda funny]

• Not selling ftf to an out-of-state resident.
I ask to see a Texas ID/DL if I don't know the person is a Texan, but I don't write anything down.

• No sales to minors (under 18).

• There are no laws (federal or Texan) that require a bill of sale.

This has nothing to do with "politics", btw.

 

[texas skeeter]

This has nothing to do with "politics", btw.

you're right it doesnt. but it has everything to do with Jacka$$e$ not knowing shit while transacting a private instate sale. and Yes you should check I.D. and ask them if they are elgible to own it. but thats covering your a$$ as well as common sense. its when the "Im doing this for your own good" crowd seems to go overboard and demand EVERYONE else to abide by their "newly created in their own mind" rules. that sooner or later it miraculously seems to become law!! thats what i find wrong with IDIOTS selling firearms.

 

[Texasjack]

I've heard several guys say they were scared when ATF started hassling gun stores for small paperwork violations. (like misspelling an address) A lot of gun stores won't sell a gun now unless a manager double checks the paperwork. At least one store I know of was recommending to individuals that they make sure to get a copy of the buyer or seller's ID. It doesn't hurt to be careful, but yeah, some guys make it sound like they need a DNA sample.

 

[M. Sage]

I've heard several guys say they were scared when ATF started hassling gun stores for small paperwork violations. (like misspelling an address) A lot of gun stores won't sell a gun now unless a manager double checks the paperwork. At least one store I know of was recommending to individuals that they make sure to get a copy of the buyer or seller's ID. It doesn't hurt to be careful, but yeah, some guys make it sound like they need a DNA sample.

The BATFEIEIO has shut down gun shops for people putting "Y" and "N" instead of "yes" and "no" on the 4473. It's even worse than an incorrect address.

 

[Wolfwood]

The BATFEIEIO has shut down gun shops for people putting "Y" and "N" instead of "yes" and "no" on the 4473. It's even worse than an incorrect address.

yikes.
seems to me liek they are jsut trying to make it to much work nad to risky to even get an FFL to begin with.

 

[SiscoKid]

Have bought guns from Gun Shows where when I have said "I'll take it" they said "private sale, no paper work needed". I still have asked for a name and city, "for my records".

Consequently have sold some guns FTF where I have asked for a DL # "for my records".

As a C&R holder, the C&R eligible guns need to be recorded, with full disclosure. I also keep a record of all guns bought and sold, just in case.

Granted, someone could furnish a false name and location. But if you have a reason to doubt them, then one shouldn't be doing business with them anyway.

 

[swsmailman]

The only thing about FTF without paperwork that I see, is what if the gun you sell is used In a crime and it comes back to you somehow through prints or serial number.

I just wouldn't really know how go about covering your ass without offending the buyer or something. But then again if you start asking questions and for DL and such like that, and they all of a sudden decide to not buy it, then there is your answer.

 

[Bobk]

I agree that it can be frustrating dealing with some people and FTF. It's not the law even though some believe that it is or should be. I've bought a lot of stuff face to face. I see it as CYA issue and I don’t mind providing my information. We all know about the alleged issue that occurred up in Austin at the Texas Gun Shows. IMHO most people are honest but there is always the one person out there that will try and ruin it for everyone. I’ve seen guns for sale at Flea Markets where you can bet that a person who could not legally purchase a gun would buy it. The prices are way above the price that a normal person would buy it for.


My only concern would be not buying the gun from someone who looks questionable, i.e. not trying to stereotype or profile someone but I have passed buying guns when the person looks too young to own that type of firearm or the person tells me something that I think just doesn’t settle right. My most recent example was a young man, late teens to early twenties selling a Thompson/Auto ordnance M1. My son also thought that it was suspicious that such a young person would own a 1k firearm. The person also had multiple other firearms. If I would have bought it I would have asked him provide me his information as the seller to CMA in case the weapon was stolen.

 

[nalioth]

The only thing about FTF without paperwork that I see, is what if the gun you sell is used In a crime and it comes back to you somehow through prints or serial number.

I just wouldn't really know how go about covering your ass without offending the buyer or something. But then again if you start asking questions and for DL and such like that, and they all of a sudden decide to not buy it, then there is your answer.

Fortunately, just "having owned" a gun used in a crime doesn't make you a criminal.

The police use other facts to decide who to look at. . .

 

[M. Sage]

The only thing about FTF without paperwork that I see, is what if the gun you sell is used In a crime and it comes back to you somehow through prints or serial number.

Does not prove that you did anything wrong. Just that the firearm you used wound up in the wrong hands. Remember - it's up to the government to prove you did something wrong beyond a reasonable doubt. I could actually see where having a record of sale could end up biting you in the ass, though it's more likely to be helpful to you in a situation like that.

 

[txinvestigator]

The BATFEIEIO has shut down gun shops for people putting "Y" and "N" instead of "yes" and "no" on the 4473. .

No, they have not. I have worked for an FFL and the BATFE has always been willing work with an FFL as long as the FFL tries to do it right.

 

[txinvestigator]

The only thing about FTF without paperwork that I see, is what if the gun you sell is used In a crime and it comes back to you somehow through prints or serial number.

I just wouldn't really know how go about covering your ass without offending the buyer or something. But then again if you start asking questions and for DL and such like that, and they all of a sudden decide to not buy it, then there is your answer.

Unless Law Enforcement has something else to connect you to the crime you just tell them you sold it and thats it.

Now if your estranged wife is murderd with a gun the police recover and trace it to you: "I sold it to someone I can't remember" may not fly.

 

[sjones]

I've bought and sold so many guns over the years that if they keep all those yellow sheets(they are not supposed to) it must be getting about a foot high by now.I have no idea who has the guns by this time.I wouldn't mind having some guns thats not on the yellow sheets. sj