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O'Rourke: 'Hell Yes We're Going to Take Away Your AR-15'

Discussion in 'Politics' started by WAYnorthTX, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. Ole Cowboy

    Ole Cowboy TGT Addict

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    That is a FAR stretch. The ATF relooked the original RULE on Bump stocks. I am not sure how bump stocks got past the ATF to begin with????

    So what the ATF has done is reissue a new RULE, its neither a LAW or a Regulation, its a rule!

    Here is the data on that rule and how they arrived at it...

    "DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives 27 CFR Parts 447, 478, and 479 [Docket No. 2018R–22F; AG Order No. 4367–2018] RIN 1140–AA52 Bump-Stock-Type Devices AGENCY: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives; Department of Justice. ACTION: Final rule."

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2018-12-26/pdf/2018-27763.pdf
     


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  2. candcallen

    candcallen Purveyor of Snark Humor and Truth.

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    Little Elm
    No it wasnt a rule it was changing the definition of machine gun. That isnt regulation its law making and not in their purview.

    They even admitted as such in the recent court filing.
     
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  3. Mohawk600

    Mohawk600 Well-Known

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    Does anyone else think that Hank Voigt needs about 3 minutes in "the cage" with butthead?
     
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  4. JCC

    JCC Well-Known

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    One thing seems to be the case: all of this negativity is not helping the NFA go away or nationwide reciprocity.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
  5. Ole Cowboy

    Ole Cowboy TGT Addict

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    I will let you make the call:

    "V. Final Rule This final rule adopts, with minor changes, the proposed amendments to the definition of ‘‘machine gun’’ in 27 CFR 447.11, 478.11, and 479.11, which include clarification of the meaning of ‘‘automatically’’ and ‘‘single function of the trigger’’ and clarification that bumpstock-type devices are machineguns. The Department accordingly determined that persons in possession of bumpstock-type devices must destroy or abandon the devices. In response to comments received and discussed in Part IV, the Department added employees of manufacturers and one additional manufacturer to the populations potentially affected by this rule, and incorporated sales tax of $19.00 per bump-stock-type device as part of the economic analysis. Also, the Department considered additional alternatives and inserted an OMB Circular A–4 Accounting Statement for clarity. VI. Statutory and Executive Order Review A. Executive Orders 12866, 13563, and 13771 Executive Orders 13563 (Improving Regulation and Regulatory Review) and 12866 (Regulatory Planning and Review) direct agencies to assess the costs and benefits of available regulatory alternatives and, if regulation is necessary, to select regulatory approaches that maximize net benefits (including potential economic, environmental, public health, and safety effects, distributive impacts, and equity). Executive Order 13563 emphasizes the importance of quantifying both costs and benefits, reducing costs, harmonizing rules, and promoting flexibility. Executive Order 13771 (Reducing Regulation and Controlling Regulatory Costs) directs agencies to reduce regulation and control regulatory costs. This final rule is expected to have an impact of over $100 million in the first year of this regulatory action. Details on the estimated costs of this final rule can be found in the rule’s economic analysis below. The Attorney General has determined this rule is a ‘‘significant regulatory action’’ that is economically significant under section 3(f)(1) of Executive Order 12866 because, as discussed, the rule will have an annual effect on the economy of $100 million or more. Accordingly, the rule has been reviewed by the Office of Management and Budget. This rule is a significant regulatory action that clarifies the meaning of the statutory definition of machinegun and reflects the public safety goals of the NFA and GCA. Further, this rule is a regulatory action subject to Executive Order 13771. See OMB, Guidance Implementing Executive Order 13771, Titled ‘‘Reducing Regulation and Controlling Regulatory Costs’’ (Apr. 5, 2017). This final rule is intended to interpret the definition of ‘‘machinegun’’ within the NFA and GCA such that it includes a bump-stock-type device, i.e., a device that allows a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter. "
     
  6. Bithabus

    Bithabus ! TGT Supporter

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    Bump stocks are illegal now because they changed the definition.
     
  7. Ole Cowboy

    Ole Cowboy TGT Addict

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    YEA! They did make law they amended the Definition thru new Rule. After a law is enacted generally it is left up to the Federal Agencies to manage and amend as needed. Otherwise, Congress would be in session 24x365. That is how the Govt works...
     
  8. candcallen

    candcallen Purveyor of Snark Humor and Truth.

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    I dont care what they called it at the time. They admitted they actually changed the legal definition of machine gun. That was a legally described definition in the law by Congress. It wasnt something they can interpret or write regulation about like "sporting purpose".

    This was the point of many of the lawsuits. It's why they were forced to admit that no it wasnt a rule change or a regulation change or tech branch opinion but was actually arrived at by changing the legal definition of machine gun to suit their desired purpose and they do not have the power to change laws.

    If they can do this they can ban your finger cause that's the original bump stock. If just like that bump stock can be a machine gun and banned then your finger can be banned.

    They can write rules and regulations on how to implement lots of things, too much if you ask me, but they cant change definitions written into law by Congress. That changes the law.
     
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  9. Vaquero

    Vaquero San Saba Songbird

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    They can't define male or female. How the **** are they supposed to define "machine gun".
    We're screwed on the legalities and governance fronts.

    Prepare to defend you and yours.
     
  10. Ole Cowboy

    Ole Cowboy TGT Addict

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    I know all that. I provided with the data and of the where, when and how they did that. No need to get upset we all agree on the final outcome, there is NOTHING you or anyone else is going to do about it, it is what it is!

    TABLE 4—NUMBER OF BUMP-STOCK-TYPE DEVICES PRODUCED, BASED ON MANUFACTURER AND RETAIL SALES
    280,000 - 520,000 TOTAL for all years.

    Lets see, 100 Million gun owners, 300 million guns and somewhere between 280k and 520k bump stocks. Not exactly a big deal IMO, I got a finger, don't a bump stock, if I need to burn ammo that bad I will toss it in a fire pit. Bump Stocks = BFD...NOT!

    So can they can the ATF delete the Congressional as passed definition of a machine gun. No not unless the law was sunseted. BUT can they EXPAND the definition? Yes the courts have ruled as such and my friend, we are going to do what? protest in the streets, you can I doubt you will be joined by a large crowd.

    So, you gots to know when to hold'um and when to fold'um.

    My focus is on saving the RKBA 2nd Amendment and I am hard-pressed to see where the 2nd RKBA provides coverage for bump stocks...That said I am not sure that a bump stock creates a Full auto machine gun other than it creates a rapid-fire episode without repeated human intervention and that is the basis for outlawing them. Neither you nor I can argue that point, it does in fact do that, not very well, not controllable and fails to meet my standards as a valued device I would add to any guy I own.

    So lets stop blaming Trump!!!!!!!!!!! Your alternatives are??? Biden, Warren, Beto, Bernie, Karmelo, Corker. Trump did take away the bump stock the ATF did under their purview of the law, we have a much bigger fight coming if Trump does NOT win in 2020 and guess what...it AIN'T the 2nd Amendment, its the whole US Constitution. There is not a Dim running who would no mill the USC in a heartbeat, every one of them is IMO: Communist-Socialist-Fascist.

    Keep you powder dry my friend, we may have a real war on our hands sooner rather than later!
     


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