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Optics during LTC qualifying?

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  • .45 Fan

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    I have my LTC but have a friend just getting into guns. She took the online class and wants to do her qualification portion after she practices to bring up her comfort level and accuracy. Here's the question...can she use a pistol with a dot? I plan on loaning her my Shadow 2 but a local instructor refuses to allow her to use any type of optics; iron sights only. Is this a personal preference of the instructor or is this coming from DPS? I searched the DPS website but haven't seen anything about using optics.
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    RankAmateur

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    No optics or electronic sights allowed for qualifications.

    I thank him for following the law.........
    Must depend on where you qualify. Half of the class I attended used red dots on their pistols, no issues. Check with the school/class where she'll be qualifying.
     

    V-Tach

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    Must depend on where you qualify. Half of the class I attended used red dots on their pistols, no issues. Check with the school/class where she'll be qualifying.

    Like I said...

    I thank him for following the law and not being a greedy asshole............

    Any respectable instructor would not allow it..........

    @Hoji would you agree?
     

    .45 Fan

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    No optics or electronic sights allowed for qualifications.

    I thank him for following the law.........
    Can you lead me to where I can read the law? I'm not disagreeing but I like to know what I'm talking about and having the DPS rule/guideline/law would be interesting. I prefer iron sights but I can see how someone who plans on carrying a pistol with optics might be confused. Edited to add: I searched DPS's website and can't find anything.
     

    RankAmateur

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    Can you lead me to where I can read the law? I'm not disagreeing but I like to know what I'm talking about and having the DPS rule/guideline/law would be interesting. I prefer iron sights but I can see how someone who plans on carrying a pistol with optics might be confused. Edited to add: I searched DPS's website and can't find anything.
    Previously discussed in another thread: https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/optics-while-doing-ltc-training.94960/

    Prohibition of optical enhancers is in the attached graphic linked within. This is the linked Texas administrative code: https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/publ...oc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=37&pt=1&ch=6&rl=14

    And this is a link to the attached graphic: https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/fids/201700716-1.pdf
     

    .45 Fan

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    Previously discussed in another thread: https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/optics-while-doing-ltc-training.94960/

    Prohibition of optical enhancers is in the attached graphic linked within. This is the linked Texas administrative code: https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/publ...oc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=37&pt=1&ch=6&rl=14

    And this is a link to the attached graphic: https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/fids/201700716-1.pdf
    Thank you for the information! I had searched the forums and didn't see this either.
     

    BBL

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    Thank you for the factual answer, Mr. Amateur!
    I too had a "feeling" that only iron sights were allowed but could not find any quotation on the DPS website. They sure made it hard to find inside an unsearchable PDF!
     

    toddnjoyce

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    Thank you for the factual answer, Mr. Amateur!
    I too had a "feeling" that only iron sights were allowed but could not find any quotation on the DPS website. They sure made it hard to find inside an unsearchable PDF!

    Yeah, when it was in the code, it was buried under the instructor qualification section.

    If a government is going to be bureaucratic, it at least needs to be logical in it’s bureaucracy.
     

    etmo

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    Part of the reason why some instructors allow red dots and some don't might be the statutory definition of "optical enhancer".

    There doesn't appear to be one, or at least I couldn't find one, so if someone knows of one, please correct me and post the link.

    When a term lacks a statutory definition, the "plain meaning" of the words is used, and a red dot or laser is not what I would consider an optical enhancer.

    A scope imo is an optical enhancer, I think any reasonable person would agree, but a pistol-mounted red dot doesn't "enhance" anything, it does the exact same thing that iron sights do -- it tells you where the bullet will impact at some pre-determined range we call a "zero". Same with a laser, except a laser does a crappier job than either of the other options.

    A magnifier is also what I'd consider an optical enhancer, so using one of those would reasonably be prohibited.

    There really should be a statutory definition, because I think any reasonable person would agree that glasses and contact lenses are optical enhancers, and we wouldn't want anyone taking the test without such things if they needed them to see at an acceptable level of visual acuity.
     
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    Sasquatch

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    Part of the reason why some instructors allow red dots and some don't might be the statutory definition of "optical enhancer".

    There doesn't appear to be one, or at least I couldn't find one, so if someone knows of one, please correct me and post the link.

    When a term lacks a statutory definition, the "plain meaning" of the words is used, and a red dot or laser is not what I would consider an optical enhancer.

    A scope imo is an optical enhancer, I think any reasonable person would agree, but a pistol-mounted red dot doesn't "enhance" anything, it does the exact same thing that iron sights do -- it tells you where the bullet will impact at some pre-determined range we call a "zero". Same with a laser, except a laser does a crappier job than either of the other options.

    A magnifier is also what I'd consider an optical enhancer, so using one of those would reasonably be prohibited.

    There really should be a statutory definition, because I think any reasonable person would agree that glasses and contact lenses are optical enhancers, and we wouldn't want anyone taking the test without such things if they needed them to see at an acceptable level of visual acuity.

    That is an incredibly well thought out explanation there.
     

    V-Tach

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    When instructors take the class with DPS.........the question ALWAYS comes up...and is covered......all Instructors know the the rules...there is no ambiguity.......or misunderstanding............or misinterpretation.........

    There are many, many instructors on this site.......and not one of them will publicly admit here or online that they allow it.....

    Any instructor not following the the shooting qualification regulations should lose their instructor certification.
     
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