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Discussion in 'Texas LTC / CHL' started by leVieux, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. cycleguy2300

    cycleguy2300 Active Member

    Mar 19, 2010
    Austin, Texas
    We have provided you facts and you respond that you don't thing they should be facts. When one party in a discussion won't accept facts there is no point continuing the discussion with them because they have set themselves up in their mind as the final arbiter of truth and will make excuses and ignore what they want to reach their desired conclusion.

    For the rest who may still be interested:
    When a court says something is lawful, it is lawful until a court says it isn't. The courts have decided what I and others have described doing for safety is "reasonable" which is the standard set in the 4th amendment.

    For anyone still feeling like "well its my right, the cop can ask but I won't comply" think about a knife. They are arms/weapons just as much as a firearm. Could it be reasonable for a officer working I'm close proximity to someone to ask them to leave their Kabar back inside on a vehicle burglary or to temporarily take that tactical folder from a meth head's pocket while they conduct a search of their vehicle? What I can do for knives with legal reason to be there, I can do with pistols or rifles.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

  2. TexasRedneck

    TexasRedneck 1911 Nut Lifetime Member

    Jan 23, 2009
    New Braunfels, TX
    And I will caution you that unless you're an attorney, you're likely to end up cuffed an' stuffed, because there are nuances in most laws that make you legal until x, y or z happens - and you could well find yourself on the receiving end of some very heavy charges. The time to fight with a cop is when you get to court - because 99% of the time, a cop has a reason for what he's doing. Might not be obvious to you, but most of them just want to finish their shift and go home. If he IS out of line, the place to determine that is in a courtroom - not on the street.
    CyberWolf, Dred, cycleguy2300 and 2 others like this.
  3. rotor

    rotor Active Member

    Nov 1, 2015
    Wichita Falls
    Safety alone is not the criteria for reasonable though. The person involved needs to be involved or expected to be involved in a criminal activity. You can not just walk up to someone on their own property and order them to put their gun in the house when they are carrying legally and you have no reason to suspect them of committing a crime. If you could then no person could reasonably expect to open or conceal carry without fearing that a LEO would order them to disarm and put their gun in their house. Reasonable has to be reasonable.
    To me, coming onto the property of a black individual who has called the police to report a theft and ordering that person to put his gun in the house for your safety sounds more like racial profiling. Isn't that a reasonable assumption?
    jordanmills and leVieux like this.
  4. V-Tach

    V-Tach TGT Addict Forum Sponsor

    Sep 30, 2012
    Spoke to a couple of LEO's over the weekend...both said it is not that simple....a lot of factors come into many....that we can play "what if" till the cows come home....and it doesn't mean squat.....every incident will be different.......and every officer can interpret those factors differently.

    These types threads of always come down to "what if" scenarios which will be handled by LEO's who have never heard of, let alone.....ever read threads on TGT......

  5. jrbfishn

    jrbfishn TGT Addict

    Aug 9, 2013
    south of killeen
    Yeah, you have presented facts.
    And then presented BS scenarios that don't match the original question.
    Like I said, I have/have had quite a few friends in Law enforcement. Some lawyers as well. My neighbor was lawyer when I was in criminal justice and let me use his law books. Talked about it quite often. You are not the only one that knows anything about it.
    The Law;
    I have found that most cops will tell you only enough about it to make their life safer and easier while at work. They know that most don't know enough to say otherwise and won't check.
    Prosecutors will tell you what the Law is. And what can get you in trouble anyway.
    Defense lawyers will tell you what the law is but what they can not defend you of in spite of what it says.
    Partly because of case law. It depends on the situation and how you use it. Is it right? Sometimes.
    Apparently, you would abuse it.

    Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
  6. Dred

    Dred Active Member

    Mar 12, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Well, sure, but ... 1. the officer was black. 2. it was a polite request. And, 3. I did not feel violated.
    Dad_Roman, TxStetson and cycleguy2300 like this.
  7. TxStetson

    TxStetson Usually Here TGT Supporter Lifetime Member

    If you start trying to make sense now, that means there’s 17 wasted pages.
    CyberWolf, Dad_Roman, Dred and 6 others like this.
  8. BillFairbanks

    BillFairbanks Well-Known

    May 8, 2017
    Johnson County, TX

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  9. leVieux

    leVieux Old Guy "Have Gun; Won't Travel !"

    Mar 28, 2013
    Saint Martinville, LA
    I have noticed that perplexing practice myself. A friend in Houston has his permits and a few pistols, has carried in the past, but now ventures into dangerous areas unarmed. He can offer no reasonable sounding explanation for this.
  10. rotor

    rotor Active Member

    Nov 1, 2015
    Wichita Falls
    So black cops are not racially biased? I am not criticizing you but I wonder how he would have treated this old white guy.

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