Military Camp

Major screw up by COTA will cost them $25 million

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • oldag

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 19, 2015
    17,430
    96
    While that’s going to hurt, I’m curious how a business venture isn’t profitable unless it receives a $25M/yr reimbursement from the state.

    I’m sure it’s more complex than that, though.

    You would be surprised how many people get their money losing ventures propped up by taxpayers.
    Texas SOT
     

    oldag

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 19, 2015
    17,430
    96
    If they generate trillions in revenue, and the state give $25 billion back, the state still comes out trillions ahead.

    If the race doesn’t come back for reason related to the lack of $25 billion then the state loses trillions in revenue.

    What you are saying is similar to the Cortez claim that 3billion in tax breaks could be spent on other things leading to a net loss of 7Billion or so when amazon said “**** off”.


    Giving a little away in order to attract a lot more makes sense. And based off the numbers you just posted it would make a lot of sense to give that money away in order to keep the race and all it revenue in Texas. I don’t know if your numbers are actually correct though. I have no idea how much tax revenue the state actually got from the event.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    The question is would that venture go ahead and operate anyhow without the $25M rebate? Have you foregone $25M in tax revenue for no reason?

    Once you start giving tax rebates/reductions/incentives - where does it end? Pretty soon everyone coming to the state demands one. Then every business planning an expansion wants one. {I saw this first hand when I served on the San Antonio Greater CofC Economic Development board.} And your effective tax rate goes down materially. So the posted tax rate gets raised and all the existing businesses (not receiving rebates/reductions/incentives) pay more than they would have otherwise.

    Can be a slippery slope once you start down that path.
     

    TAZ

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 17, 2008
    1,488
    96
    Round Rock
    If they generate trillions in revenue, and the state give $25 billion back, the state still comes out trillions ahead.

    If the race doesn’t come back for reason related to the lack of $25 billion then the state loses trillions in revenue.

    What you are saying is similar to the Cortez claim that 3billion in tax breaks could be spent on other things leading to a net loss of 7Billion or so when amazon said “**** off”.


    Giving a little away in order to attract a lot more makes sense. And based off the numbers you just posted it would make a lot of sense to give that money away in order to keep the race and all it revenue in Texas. I don’t know if your numbers are actually correct though. I have no idea how much tax revenue the state actually got from the event.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Maybe I’m not understanding things fully. I understood that due to the $25MM not being kicked back to F1 the venue becomes a looser abs may not return to TX. That to me means F1 isn’t generating sufficient revenue or they are lying sacks of shit. If they aren’t generating enough revenue to cover costs that is because there aren’t enough people attending a spending cash. Transactions that are supposedly generating tax revenue for the state. That means tax revenues would be down as well.

    AFAIK F1 received property tax breaks on their multi million dollar venue. Did F1 build the track out of their own budget or did we, the TX tax payer, for the bill like other high dollar venues? Does F1 reimburse the city for the added expenses that go along with the week long event. Extra security, extra crime, extra everything or are the increased tax revenues supposed to cover all that?

    I think my distrust goes back to the whole I don’t believe the state comes out ahead with ANY of these idiotic plans where tax payers foot the bill for billionaires to make more $$. It’s not just an F1 thing. Same goes for NFL, NBA and the rest of the bunch.
     

    benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
    Staff member
    Lifetime Member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
    23,933
    96
    Spring
    Once you start giving tax rebates/reductions/incentives - where does it end?
    I don't know where it ends, but the road goes through hell on the way.

    This starts slow but it's actually worth the time to watch it. It's about how Louisiana has completely screwed itself over with runaway tax incentives to business. It's an important lesson in politics and greed and how badly they mix.

     

    Younggun

    Certified Jackass
    TGT Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Jul 31, 2011
    53,618
    96
    hill co.
    Maybe I’m not understanding things fully. I understood that due to the $25MM not being kicked back to F1 the venue becomes a looser abs may not return to TX. That to me means F1 isn’t generating sufficient revenue or they are lying sacks of shit. If they aren’t generating enough revenue to cover costs that is because there aren’t enough people attending a spending cash. Transactions that are supposedly generating tax revenue for the state. That means tax revenues would be down as well.

    AFAIK F1 received property tax breaks on their multi million dollar venue. Did F1 build the track out of their own budget or did we, the TX tax payer, for the bill like other high dollar venues? Does F1 reimburse the city for the added expenses that go along with the week long event. Extra security, extra crime, extra everything or are the increased tax revenues supposed to cover all that?

    I think my distrust goes back to the whole I don’t believe the state comes out ahead with ANY of these idiotic plans where tax payers foot the bill for billionaires to make more $$. It’s not just an F1 thing. Same goes for NFL, NBA and the rest of the bunch.

    I don’t know if the state makes or loses money on the deal so for that reason I’m pretty neutral. If I’m shown the state loses money then I’m fully against it.

    That said, revenue to the state comes from more than just the track. The state will also get revenue from hotels, restaurants, tourist attractions, and anything else people do while visiting for the race. So the track could have difficulty covering its own expenses while still hosting an event that creates a lot of revenue to the state.


    I also agree with Bens post that it can be horribly abused and go very wrong to the point the state attracts business for a net loss. Or offers much more than is necessary in order to attract business and only netting a small portion of the possible revenue.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Low_Speed

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 25, 2010
    297
    46
    Austin
    All of the big events (Super Bowl, World Series, F1, ...) and the big spenders that attend them draw in hookers and pimps.

    And what do they expect COTA or any of those events organizers to do about that? Seems like that if LE knows that this happens at these events they should run stings to get traffickers.

    Just seems like COTA is the last one that needs to come up with a plan.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited:

    gshayd

    Ugliest house on the block.
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 25, 2018
    1,307
    96
    Beaumont, Texas
    I thought the purpose of a tax incentive was to help with the startup costs of a business giving them a temporary reprieve so they can become profitable. Once they become profitable its time to become a citizen of the community and pay some taxes. I can see the problem with these tax breaks is that everybody wants a new business and places engage in a bidding war with incentives. The politicians don't care because it is other peoples money. They only want to gain votes for the next election. While the citizens think yay us we get a new business its all good. The question would be is it a good deal in the long run. The new facility is going to need infrastructure to support it. Roads, sewer, ect. The new place isn't paying any taxes because of the deal so lets say the community has to raise taxes or do a bond. There has to be some kind of a deal where it is on a sliding scale where eventually the business needs to become a taxpayer for the community or some kind of a deal after they have become profitable based on the actual economic benefit to the community.
     

    pronstar

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2017
    10,542
    96
    Dallas
    I’m not a fan of heaping all the risk in the taxpayer, funding billion-dollar private enterprises that are perfectly capable of raising their own financing.

    But if it must be done...
    Instead of raiding the public coffers, let them take a cut of local sales-tax revenue generated at the venue. City keeps half, event keeps half.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    AustinN4

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Nov 27, 2013
    9,853
    96
    Austin
    I’m not a fan of heaping all the risk in the taxpayer, funding billion-dollar private enterprises that are perfectly capable of raising their own financing.
    What risk are you referring to, and which state income bucket did the money for that risk come from.

    But if it must be done...
    Instead of raiding the public coffers, let them take a cut of local sales-tax revenue generated at the venue. City keeps half, event keeps half.
    I believe that is where the $25 million would have come from, no? They estimate the economic activity of the event, then estimate the tax revenue from that, of which the event gets a cut.
     

    pronstar

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2017
    10,542
    96
    Dallas
    What risk are you referring to, and which state income bucket did the money for that risk come from.


    I believe that is where the $25 million would have come from, no? They estimate the economic activity of the event, then estimate the tax revenue from that, of which the event gets a cut.

    The risk as I see it is, the .gov has pledged $25 million, based on estimates of the economic benefit.

    If the take for the event is less than the estimate, the risk for the event shortfall is covered by taxpayers.

    These teams can spend updates of $200 million to race each year, and the series has made Bernie a billionaire several times over.

    Why the heck do they need a handout?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    AustinN4

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Nov 27, 2013
    9,853
    96
    Austin
    The risk as I see it is, the .gov has pledged $25 million, based on estimates of the economic benefit.

    If the take for the event is less than the estimate, the risk for the event shortfall is covered by taxpayers.

    These teams can spend updates of $200 million to race each year, and the series has made Bernie a billionaire several times over.

    Why the heck do they need a handout?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I think there is more than just estimates involved. I believe the 2019 payment was extrapolated off 2018 ticket sales, which is a good indicator of attendance, but I could be wrong because they didn't involve me in the negotiation. You see it as a handout, I see it as revenue sharing that would not have occurred if the track was not built here.

    And they probably could have built that track near any of the large southern and SWern cities and gotten as good a deal or better.
     

    Steve.D

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 1, 2014
    6
    11
    Top Bottom