LWRC or POF rife to buy???

[98f150]

I am looking to buy a high end piston driven AR type rifle in 5.56 I am asking the readers of Texasguntalk to help me make up my mind as to which one is better? I have been to both websites but thats not helping me make up my mind. Thanks for any input.

 

[smschulz]

XCR

[url]http://www.robarm.com/XCR_Specifications.htm[/URL]

 

[Mate]

LWRC all the way. Stick with the AR15 platform. Parts are availalbe everywhere, unlike with other platforms where the only place you can buy them is from the manufacturer. I heard a story where somebody went to a class with an XCR that eventually went tits up. The dude called Rob arms, got a part shipped to his hotel room overnight. Granted, he got the part fast, but he had to use someone's backup AR until he was able to get his part the next day. This can be remedied if you buy a backup XCR. I cant remember exactly what part it was, but is was something you wouldnt normally think of. When I find it I'll edit my post.

Keep in mind, this is all well in good until society collapses. Similar to what happened in new orleans with Katrina, or Houston with Rita.

Or, you can buy an AR, get a few spare parts for it (spare BCG), and not have to worry about it.

I'll admit I dont have any experience with POF, but from what I've seen and heard about LWRC, I'd pick them.

Cold hammer forged barrel
HPT/MPI barrel
1/7 twist rate
HPT/MPI bolt
5.56 chamber and barrel
comes with EMOD stock and MIAD grip
Awesome customer service

 

[Texas1911]

LWRC are nice, but I'd buy a POF over it.

 

[Okierifleman]

LWRC are nice, but I'd buy a POF over it.

+1 on this. I have been pondering the same 2, doing some research, and I am 95% sure I am going with the POF

 

[Mate]

Care to expound why Texas1911?

 

[smschulz]

I heard a story where somebody went to a class with an XCR that eventually went tits up.

I heard the same story about an AR.

 

[Mate]

Did you read the rest of my post?

Replacement parts are more widespread and easier to allocate.

 

[baboon]

Early feb. I ordered 2 LMT lowers. While waiting on them I bought a LWRC Ar-15 lower for my .300 Whisper on recommendation of my NFA dealer. To hear him talk LWRC is the shit. I must say I like the LWRC lower over the LMT's.

 

[ColdDeadHands]

I just bought my first AR recently and did a lot of research on various forums. A highly regarded instructor and writer who shoots and sees AR's everyday said there are only 3 (if I remember correctly) he would trust; Colt, LMT & Noveske. Others tend to break often when run hard and are not that reliable.
I went for the Noveske 16.1" Recon because that's what I was able to find locally. I'm going to open up a can of worms here but he also said that the piston rifles are fairly unreliable (he was testing 3 LWRC's and 2 had lot's of problems).
That's just what I learned, In the end you need to decide for yourself and buy what you like...

 

[texas1willy2]

I have both the LWRC was shipped with oil and oiling instructions the POF did not.(does not require lube)
Other than that they are both great rifles. Don't order anything from POF's directly, they are WAAAAAY behind on shipping and will not be truthful about it.
IMO they are 1 and 2 in the market.
Here is a pretty good video the 4:00 mark is impressive.
YouTube - Future Weapons LWRC PSD
I have shopped everywhere for both of these rifles, if you want any additional info just PM.

 

[Texas1911]

Care to expound why Texas1911?

My friends POF has a much smoother action, and the bolt release button makes the gun so much faster in the economy of motion over the standard paddle. Neither are bad guns, I just think POF does the extra inch.

I'm very impressed by LMT's rifle line. The fitment on every one of them we've gotten is phenomenal. For a non-piston carbine, I'd say Daniel Defense M4 and LMT's M4 are hard to beat in a off-the-shelf AR15. I also like the Noveske stuff.

Honestly, for 95% of the people that buy AR15s any of the listed, POF, LWRC, Noveske, LMT, Colt, Bushmaster, S&W M&P, LaRue, DD, etc. are going to meet every demand and more. If you are part of the 5% that puts them through the wringer, be it training, combat, full-auto, etc. then you need to look for that extra something.

Our range loaners have been Bushmasters and they've held up to a hard life. Generally the bolt-face cracks, or a firing pin, and that's the end of them. We fix the bolt group and away they go. We're talking easily 25,000 rounds or more before we have a problem with them.

 

[shilohshooters]

I have chugged the LWRC kool-aid. Shot it once and promptly sold my Sig's to buy the LWRC. Fit, finish, feel, and 1k rounds so far w/o a hiccup.

 

[300LW]

I just bought my first AR recently and did a lot of research on various forums. A highly regarded instructor and writer who shoots and sees AR's everyday said there are only 3 (if I remember correctly) he would trust; Colt, LMT & Noveske. Others tend to break often when run hard and are not that reliable.
I went for the Noveske 16.1" Recon because that's what I was able to find locally. I'm going to open up a can of worms here but he also said that the piston rifles are fairly unreliable (he was testing 3 LWRC's and 2 had lot's of problems).
That's just what I learned, In the end you need to decide for yourself and buy what you like...

No doubt your are referring to the testing done by Pat Rogers and reported in SWAT Magazine, March 2009. His testing has been widely misinterpreted on the internet and here is is response on the LWRCI forum:

[URL="http://forum.lwrci.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=32250&highlight=swat#32250"][URL]http://forum.lwrci.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=32250&highlight=swat#32250[/URL][/URL]

Quote:

"Guys- i apoloize for not seeing this sooner- no excuses.

When i wrote that article, i tried my very best to be- above all- factual as to what i wrote. Personal bias is a constant 800 lb gorilla, and if left to wander, can influence the outcome.

When Darren, Jesse and I got together at Modern Day Marine in 2007 we started talking about an eval. As time progressed, i told them what i had in mind, which was similar to, but exceeded the round count, of a similar eval conducted on three S&W M&P 15's .

They agreed to everything i asked. That is, everything. They placed no restrictions on what i was doing. They asked only that i notify them of any issues, and bring the guns in so that they might be able to diagnose any problems we had.

I stated i would run the guns hard, with minimum maintenance- but proper lube- and i did. I told them i would write factually about my experiences with the guns.
They not only agreed, but welcomed that. They wanted to be up front with not only the readers, but themselves. They felt that issues addressed would soon be non issues and that potential customers needed to see facts, and not hype or rumor.
This is exactly the same attitude i received from S&W.

We beat the snot out of these guns. We ran them hard (look at the pics in the article) and continued to run them hard throughout the eval period.

In the end, i was satisfied, not only with the guns- but with LWRCI as well.

If anyone feels that this article is brutal, then perhaps it is because they have been desensitized by the years of fluff from writers who have been paid to scribble out a story that is glowing, short, concise, and enhances advertising revunue.

SWAT does not assign me a story. They are self generated. Both the publisher- Rich Lucibella- and the editor- Denny Hansen- are strongly supportive and encourage me to write this type of article.

What you read was- in a condensed format- what we experienced.

I was in direct contact not only w/ LWRCI on a regular basis, but also with Borebrush and Stephan PSD. They were all aware of everything that transpired.
Some consumeables were consumed. Some parts broke. Some guns didn't like some ammo, or apparently people as well (yeah Buck, talkin' about YOU

)

When you look at the totality of this, we ran the guns from one era through another. From a small operation in Springfield to a large operation in Cambridge. From parts that may not have been to spec (due to suppler issues) to parts made in house.

At the end of the day, i have not only complete confidence in LWRCI, but strongly recommend their guns.

In my armory i have LWRCI, 416's, PWS, Colt, LMT, Larue, Noveske, Defensive Edge (Sully), Stag, S&W, BCM, MagPul.
Some of these i bought (many a loooong time ago) and some are eval.
Not all evals will get a story in SWAT- we have limited time and resources.

That companies come to me for evals is flattering. Hey- how many civilians have received a 416 (upper) from HK? I have a good relationship with them as well.
In 09 we will be running Bravo Company Mid Length and DI, Defensive Edge, a Colt 6940 and PWS from MSTN .




__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I don't get all the fuss. I just went down to the bookstore & scanned that article for anything negative at all. The only mention of LWRC in the article was the author's statement that he's seen examples of SBRs from various companies (including LW) that ran very well. I'm paraphrasing, of course, but the point is that this article wasn't even ABOUT LW rifles!

Where did this notion of a "scathing" review come from???
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Operaman- before you make declarative statements, maybe you should get your facts straight. The article about the LWRC is in the March issue. The SBR article is in the Feb issue. When you are confused, maybe ask questions first before engaging the keyboard....

For those who don't believe gun writers/ gun rags. may i suggest this. I am not a gun writer. I am a Former Action Guy who still shoots for a living, and as part of my training business i write.
The purpose of that writing is to pass on information. A different format than EAG passes on in class to be sure, but to a wider audience.
If you haven't read the article, maybe read it first before you comments on it. Give LWRCI- and me- that courtesy.

Bottom line here is this.
What i wrote was factual. Any errors are mine alone.
I truly enjoyed this eval for a number of reasons. I like the LWRCI crew. They are really good guys, and with a vision.
I like where the company is going. Dick Bernstein knew what he was doing when he entered this.
I like the guns.
Perfect?
Nope. Neither is anything- or anyone- else.

Hope this helps. to clarify things."

Another post by Pat Rogers:

"In this month's EAG newsletter we sent out a list of recommendations.
Bellow is the carbine except, alphabetically listed.

Carbines
Piston:
LWRCI LWRC International
HK416 www.hkusa.com

Direct Impingement:
Bravo Company Bravo Company USA, Inc. AR-15, M16, M4 Tactical Gear, Parts, Accessories.
Colt Colt Defense
Defensive Edge (Sully) Defensive Edge SLR15 Rifles - (763) 712-0123 - Home
Denny’s Guns Global Tactical - Tactical Rifle Parts & Accessories
Larue Tactical LaRue Tactical
LMT Lewis Machine & Tool Company :: www.lewismachine.net
MSTN Mid-South Tactical Network (MSTN) - Home
Noveske Noveske Rifleworks, LLC. Precision Battle Weapons. NoveskeRifleworks.com
Smith &Wesson LE [URL="http://www.smith-wesson.com"]www.smith-wesson.com[/URL]"

[URL]http://forum.lwrci.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=45658&highlight=#45658[/URL]