Looters will be out in dark areas!

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  • ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    But using lethal force to stop theft at night is a very high bar to meet to a jury so be very careful here. Also, most people don't know what night is, 30 minutes after sunset and 30 minutes before sunrise. Not just dark but you need to know what "night" is. The issue is lethal force.

    I'm not concerned.
    Dark as shit right now, and the county judge posted a warning to looters during the hurricane.
     

    baboon

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    Out here by the lake!
    You sound....disappointed.
    Herman Park near theMedical Center after dark looked like trash bears going through the garbage cans looking for food. Mountain biking Braes Bayou after dark the bridge trolls would be cooling don in the water. I really loved it when the bayou would crest thug down the debris fields of bridge tools clothes.
     

    Hoji

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    But using lethal force to stop theft at night is a very high bar to meet to a jury so be very careful here. Also, most people don't know what night is, 30 minutes after sunset and 30 minutes before sunrise. Not just dark but you need to know what "night" is. The issue is lethal force.
    Not really. At least not after a disaster. Power is out, cell towers overwhelmed, emergency services backed up hours if you can even get a call out. It was dark.
     

    Shady

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    So at night can I shoot a guy that is punching my dog for biting his face.

    Or do I have to use SSS technique.

    I knew that china excavator would come in handy some day for other than stump removal, drainage and sprinklers.
     

    alternative

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    Have you even read TPC9?
    Yup. What part of my post did you not understand. Use of lethal force is very hard to prove to a jury and you will most likely be involved with a DA that will prosecute you, depending on your location.
    9.42 3a and 3b say it all. You need to look for the word "and" . You also must know what night means. I just don't want people to think that theft at night is a blank check for the use of lethal force.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    I was specifically talking about theft at night. What are you referring to? Please enlighten us.

    But you stated you’ve already read and understand TPC 9.
    Sec. 9.02. JUSTIFICATION AS A DEFENSE. It is a defense to prosecution that the conduct in question is justified under this chapter.

    If charged (which is never guaranteed), it’s the defendant’s responsibility to enter the DTP.
    Sec. 2.03. DEFENSE. (a) A defense to prosecution for an offense in this code is so labeled by the phrase: "It is a defense to prosecution . . . ."
    (b) The prosecuting attorney is not required to negate the existence of a defense in the accusation charging commission of the offense.
    (c) The issue of the existence of a defense is not submitted to the jury unless evidence is admitted supporting the defense.
    (d) If the issue of the existence of a defense is submitted to the jury, the court shall charge that a reasonable doubt on the issue requires that the defendant be acquitted.

    The facts are:
    1. It was night. Since only the transportation code has a definition for night, the generally accepted definition is from dusk till dawn. If you’re arguing the technicality of 1 minute before dusk, then you’ve got bigger problems, anyways.

    2. The dead guy was attempting to commit or committing theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or fleeing after having committed theft or criminal mischief at night.

    Let’s look at what constitutes theft or criminal mischief.

    Sec. 31.03. THEFT. (a) A person commits an offense if he unlawfully appropriates property with intent to deprive the owner of property.
    (b) Appropriation of property is unlawful if:
    (1) it is without the owner's effective consent;
    Sec. 28.03. CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:
    (1) he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys the tangible property of the owner;
    (2) he intentionally or knowingly tampers with the tangible property of the owner and causes pecuniary loss or substantial inconvenience to the owner or a third person; or
    (3) he intentionally or knowingly makes markings, including inscriptions, slogans, drawings, or paintings, on the tangible property of the owner.

    None of those elements should be particularly difficult to prove unless you just randomly killed a dude who’s not on your property in the middle of the day. Oops, Joe Horn never even got indicted for that.

    In short, if it’s reasonably believed to be night, somebody’s on your property, they’re fucking around and they find out, the DTP requires the judge instruct the jury that reasonably doubt exists. If it even gets that far. But the defendant has to enter that defense.

    Usually, prosecutions occur when the defendant runs off at the mouth during the initial interview and muddies the water. Says things like “I just heard a noise and shot.” Or “I don’t know what they were up to”.

    If you’e going to ever consider use of deadly force, being left of bang is required and gambling on what you *think* the statutes say is retarded since the penalty for getting it wrong is a felony conviction and jail time.

    Doing this on your own is stupid; make the 911 call, provide the required information, then shut the **** up until you have a competent attorney representing you.
     
    Last edited:

    majormadmax

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    Helotes!
    This thread...

    aznw2ycb2esb1.gif
     

    alternative

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    But you stated you’ve already read and understand TPC 9.


    If charged (which is never guaranteed), it’s the defendant’s responsibility to enter the DTP.


    The facts are:
    1. It was night. Since only the transportation code has a definition for night, the generally accepted definition is from dusk till dawn. If you’re arguing the technicality of 1 minute before dusk, then you’ve got bigger problems, anyways.

    2. The dead guy was attempting to commit or committing theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or fleeing after having committed theft or criminal mischief at night.

    Let’s look at what constitutes theft or criminal mischief.




    None of those elements should be particularly difficult to prove unless you just randomly killed a dude who’s not on your property in the middle of the day. Oops, Joe Horn never even got indicted for that.

    In short, if it’s reasonably believed to be night, somebody’s on your property, they’re fucking around and they find out, the DTP requires the judge instruct the jury that reasonably doubt exists. If it even gets that far. But the defendant has to enter that defense.

    Usually, prosecutions occur when the defendant runs off at the mouth during the initial interview and muddies the water. Says things like “I just heard a noise and shot.” Or “I don’t know what they were up to”.

    If you’e going to ever consider use of deadly force, being left of bang is required and gambling on what you *think* the statutes say is retarded since the penalty for getting it wrong is a felony conviction and jail time.

    Doing this on your own is stupid; make the 911 call, provide the required information, then shut the **** up until you have a competent attorney representing you.
    You are correct except for the definition of night (which is codified in Texas law, 541.401) but a defense to prosecution is not necessarily an immunity from going to trial which was my point. Lethal force for theft at night is not a get out of jail free card depending on the judge and jury.

    Technically if it is night, a kid is stealing your son's bike, can you use lethal force?
    3A or 3B is the deciding factor.

    (3)​

    he reasonably believes that:

    (A)​

    the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

    (B)​

    the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

    A judge may throw the case out or a jury may decide A or B.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    You are correct except for the definition of night (which is codified in Texas law, 541.401)….
    Are you dense?

    364d0f685b1cecad0071894e6afa79d1.jpg

    For reference,
    42704e46ade85b184d71df8d7cefada6.jpg


    And, for posterity,
    6fc97b2060ab3e7dd85a551d7cbea940.jpg

    541.401 definition of “nighttime” only applies to the Texas Transportation Code.

    The rest of your dribble isn’t worth responding to because it’s obvious you have no command of the relevant statutes.

    I bet you’re a licensed LTC instructor, too. Some of the stupidest shit comes from them.
     
    Last edited:

    alternative

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    Are you dense?

    364d0f685b1cecad0071894e6afa79d1.jpg

    For reference,
    42704e46ade85b184d71df8d7cefada6.jpg


    And, for posterity,
    6fc97b2060ab3e7dd85a551d7cbea940.jpg

    541.401 definition of “nighttime” only applies to the Texas Transportation Code.

    The rest of your dribble isn’t worth responding to because it’s obvious you have no command of the relevant statutes.

    I bet you’re a licensed LTC instructor, too. Some of the stupidest shit comes from them.
    I took the definition of night from the book "Texas Gun Laws: Armed and Educated" written by the lawyers of Texas Law Shield. They write that night is 30 minutes after sunset to 30 minutes before sunrise.
    What dribble are you referring to? You seem to like the ad hominem argument. I am not an attorney and there maybe something I am missing in the statutes but you sure haven't explained what I missed.
     
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