Looking to build two home defense specific shotguns and can't decide...

[satx78247]

Too many long posts! When they get long, I just scroll by them. Keep it short guys!

Charlie,

When a member is trying to explain something to a "knows nothing", it takes a considerable amount of words.
Were any of the long posts addressed to you?
(Personally, I won't be hurt if you choose to just scroll on by my longer posts.)

yours, satx

 

[zackmars]

Zack, exactly where and when did I ever say such a thing? I didn't.

I'll ask direct question. Your answer, whether simple, or evasive will tell others how to determine whether you're sincere in your posts, or just some idiot spouting nonsense.

Have you ever seen a person's body, that died from a shotgun?
Exactly what do you do as career?
Have you ever tested birdshot in comparison to buckshot, various materials, at close range, and studied the results?

Yes, ive seen a person that met their end via 12ga. Id rather not talk about it.

My career is my own business, its not that interesting anyways

Yes, i have tested bird, buck, slugs, etc in all sorts of materials.

Now, answer me this, what do your first two questions have to do with anything? Are cops and coroners the gate keepers of correct firearm information?

Perhaps instead of turning this into even more of a circlejerk about who has seen more dead bodies, you can point out what I'VE said that is wrong, instead of just using some lame ass logical fallacy to try and shut me out.

Because people in this thread have said that birdshot is great for HD because it is so lethal, and others have said its a good LTL option.

I've disagreed with both, yet my replies are the ones you argue over? Why? Because i said there are more effective loads?


Birdshot is not for people. Its one step above other fudd nonsense like rocksalt loads, and two steps above the "sound of a racking shotgun being all you need" BS. Buckshot is cheap. Buy some, pattern your gun, and save birdshot for small game and clay discs

 

[zackmars]

Charlie,

When a member is trying to explain something to a "knows nothing", it takes a considerable amount of words.
Were any of the long posts addressed to you?
(Personally, I won't be hurt if you choose to just scroll on by my longer posts.)

yours, satx

You've not actually argued a single one of my points. Act your age, and debate like an adult, and not pull your bullshit shtick about how you've seen something at your job and thus is solid fact, anyone who dissagrees is a know nothing fool.

Appeals to authority, no matter how genuine, or well intentioned, are not an argument

 

[Ballistic Budda]

I would opt for a Rem 870 with the 18.5 barrel. Get a pistol grip stock and be done. For ammo, use duplex turkey loads.

 

[Axxe55]

Yes, ive seen a person that met their end via 12ga. Id rather not talk about it.

My career is my own business, its not that interesting anyways

Yes, i have tested bird, buck, slugs, etc in all sorts of materials.

Now, answer me this, what do your first two questions have to do with anything? Are cops and coroners the gate keepers of correct firearm information?

Perhaps instead of turning this into even more of a circlejerk about who has seen more dead bodies, you can point out what I'VE said that is wrong, instead of just using some lame ass logical fallacy to try and shut me out.

Because people in this thread have said that birdshot is great for HD because it is so lethal, and others have said its a good LTL option.

I've disagreed with both, yet my replies are the ones you argue over? Why? Because i said there are more effective loads?


Birdshot is not for people. Its one step above other fudd nonsense like rocksalt loads, and two steps above the "sound of a racking shotgun being all you need" BS. Buckshot is cheap. Buy some, pattern your gun, and save birdshot for small game and clay discs

Not ONE person has ever said that birdshot was the best SD load for a shotgun.

Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem.

That's the last thing I plan on replying in regards to you. I have more serious and attending things to do like drink cold beer and listening to great music.

You can circle jerk yourself!

 

[zackmars]

Not ONE person has ever said that birdshot was the best SD load for a shotgun.

Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem.

That's the last thing I plan on replying in regards to you. I have more serious and attending things to do like drink cold beer and listening to great music.

You can circle jerk yourself!

If you actually go back and read the thread, you'd see posts that say birdshot is a good choice for HD

 

[Axxe55]

Zzzzzz......

 

[zackmars]

Zzzzzz......

Is this familar? You even liked it

Bird shot 7.5 etc will take a man down and tho not fatal will end the fight.

 

[Axxe55]

Is this familar? You even liked it

Dude, you are seriously bordering on making an ass of yourself.

Time to drop it, and just agree to disagree.

I'm done with you.

 

[zackmars]

Dude, you are seriously bordering on making an ass of yourself.

Time to drop it, and just agree to disagree.

I'm done with you.

I am an ass,

I just find it funny that me not thinking birdshot is "good enough to stop an attacker while not being fatal", and getting jumped on by fools looking to fight about how lethal birdshot is a hill people are making a stand on

Pick one


Stops the fight, and is lethal


Is non lethal

 

[rotor]

rotor,

At 73YO, I don't want to face an armed bad guy again with ANY firearm, as "I've done my time in the barrel" in 3 decades of "being pinned to a badge" every day.

Nonetheless, I will NOT fail "to defend family, hearth & home" if I HAVE TO & "with deadly force".
(TRUTH is that my very petite lady will shoot you quicker than I will and she WILL "shoot to kill" with her "adopted" Remington Model 7615 police carbine, to protect Nathan Paul & herself from danger. = The female of almost every species is the more deadly of the genders, if defending their young from harm.)

yours, satx

I am actually older than you, my wife is the better shot too. I personally go for #4 buckshot in the house.

 

[satx78247]

I am actually older than you, my wife is the better shot too. I personally go for #4 buckshot in the house.

rotor,

MANY days, I feel older than Methusela, what with bad knees/ankles/broken ribs that took >9 months to heal/numerous places that just hurt, etc.
(To quote an old saying: Old age ain't for sissies.)

And YES, my "miniature lady" generally out-shoots me, too.
(For one thing, I've had to scope all my long guns, except the DB, as I don't see peep sights well, anymore. - Nonetheless, I can still hunt the brush country, so it's all good.)

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

You've not actually argued a single one of my points. Act your age, and debate like an adult, and not pull your bullshit shtick about how you've seen something at your job and thus is solid fact, anyone who dissagrees is a know nothing fool.

Appeals to authority, no matter how genuine, or well intentioned, are not an argument

zackmars,

WHY would I choose to argue with a "knows nothing" beyond what somebody told you or that you read somewhere?
(It was your repeated requests for "sources" that gave you away as "book smart" & real/practical knowledge (likely) completely lacking.)
Further, I have no patience with people who won't give a straight answer to a direct question & tries to evade answering the question and/or admitting that they have NO practical experience in the subject at hand.
(Nobody knows everything & an honest person admits when they are "out of their depth". = There are many libraries that are filled with things that I do not know & likely will never learn. Otoh, I don't try to convince people that I know all about things that I have ZERO knowledge of.)
Don't bother responding, unless you are ready to come clean & finally admit that your knowledge on shooting incidents, involving shotguns as weapons of death/destruction, is all 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand.

yours, satx

 

[Mohawk600]

Birdshot looks pretty damaging to me...






Here’s what Paul Harrell has to say about it:





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Dang that is early stuff from Demolition Ranch

 

[Mohawk600]

Maybe you should go back and re-read my last paragraph again.

I'd sure like to see you step up and disprove my statements. Get your best buddy to shoot you with some #8 birdshot at about twenty feet.

I'd also advise making out your last will and testament before attempting.

Please try and prove me wrong. I have done my own informal testing of birdshot, at close ranges, on various materials, some years ago. Simply because I too thought only buckshot or slugs were appropriate ammo for self defense usage. Changed my mind.

And if your shotgun happened to be loaded with birdshot shells, in the rare event you needed it to defend yourself, do think Mr. Bad guy is going to allow you time to change to buckshot?

I have heard probably most every reason against using birdshot over the last decade or more. If you still think I'm wrong, then by all means, prove me wrong.

I would hate to get blasted in close quarters with #7 birdshot......I bet most here will agree. We are talking home defense room distances of generally no more than 16 or 24 ft at most unless your house is a mansion.

 

[zackmars]

I would hate to get blasted in close quarters with #7 birdshot......I bet most here will agree. We are talking home defense room distances of generally no more than 16 or 24 ft at most unless your house is a mansion.

Open concept housing can make for some surprisingly long shots

 

[SQLGeek]

Open concept housing can make for some surprisingly long shots

True story. My house is not a mansion and there are a few potential long shots.

I've actually patterned birdshot and it was eye opening. I'll be sticking to buck.

 

[zackmars]

True story. My house is not a mansion and there are a few potential long shots.

I've actually patterned birdshot and it was eye opening. I'll be sticking to buck.

Yeah. I prefer a rifle, but if i had to use a shotgun, federal flite control 8 pellet 00 buck or nothing.

Longest potential shot in my house (built in the 60's) is about 25 yards.

 

[SQLGeek]

Exactly what my Mossberg is stoked with.

 

[ROGER4314]

I have two of the Mossberg Shockwaves. That's a very special/unique combination of the grip, virgin receiver and 14" barrel. I'd be very careful about modifying that Shockwave in any way to stay out of Federal trouble.

Another post echoed my favorite: Remington 1100 rigged with 18 1/2" barrel and your choice of stocks. I've had many 100's over the years and have never been disappointed!

Flash