Is it an offense to remove the SN from a barrel and slide attached to an 80% lower?

[Cobber]

Talking about a handgun here.

Indiana has a law against "altering" a firearm, meaning removing the serial number. But many firearms have serial numbers in three places: frame, slide and barrel.

Is it an offense, however, to remove the SN on the slide and barrel when they're attached to an 80% lower which was never serialized to begin with?

For ATF purposes, only the frame/lower would be considered a firearm, right?

Would removing the SN from the slide and barrel constitute altering a "firearm" in this context?

Both Title 35 and 18 USC seem to define firearm as a weapon, but only the lowers are actually regulated.

Anyone know of a similar case in Texas?

 

[Hoji]

This is a question that might be better suited for an attorney and not a group of shit flinging macaques on the internetz. Just out of curiosity, why not just buy a dedicated after market slide and barrel rather than taking a dremmel to the one(s) you have and risk spending 10x what it would cost on an attorney , bail, etc to maybe get the charges dismissed?

 

[Cobber]

IAAL, just wondering if anyone has run into this before. And not my client either. I haven't seen the pics of the slide and barrel yet, but from the deputy's report it was apparent he had no idea it was an 80% lower.

Yeah, obliterating marks on firearms is not something I would advise.

But this is how we get appellate decisions...

 

[kbaxter60]

My question: why would one want to do this?

Follow-up question: Do we need a "Legal Eagles" topic area? We see a lot of these kind of questions/discussions...

 

[Army 1911]

Disclaimer: My law degree is in the mail, along with my MD. It was free with the MD degree, extra handling fee required.

Federal law has the serialized part as the receiver. State law apparently varies by state. If the item is to be kept in Indie, go by their law.

Would removing the numbers still have the makers mark? If not and other brands do not serialize those parts, then it would probably be oaky. I wouldn't take the risk unless we get another power outage and I needed a warm place to stay for a few years.

Norwegian 1911s and Sistemas serialzed slides barrels, mags and other parts. What gun is it, make-model?

 

[Hoji]

IAAL, just wondering if anyone has run into this before. And not my client either. I haven't seen the pics of the slide and barrel yet, but from the deputy's report it was apparent he had no idea it was an 80% lower.

Yeah, obliterating marks on firearms is not something I would advise.

But this is how we get appellate decisions...

Hopefully you charge extra for dumbassery

 

[Wiliamr]

Why would someone in Indiana ask people in Texas this question? You need to ask attorneys in YOUR state and ask ATF.

 

[Cobber]

Why would someone in Indiana ask people in Texas this question? You need to ask attorneys in YOUR state and ask ATF.

Always curious to see what other jurisdictions do/have done. Especially in cases of first impression. When I worked for the State Dept. of Natural Resources I had to go pretty far afield to find any case law on the weird cases I would get.

 

[Wiliamr]

 

[Cobber]

Which reminds me, I did see a case in my county where the person was charged for having an obliterated SN, but in fact the gun was imported pre-GCA and was not actually serialized to begin with.

 

[Cobber]

View attachment 245290

I have seen a ton of State cases where the defendant was a felon in possession of a firearm and/or ammo and the ATF was nowhere to be found. But they do surface from time to time.

 

[Cobber]

Hopefully you charge extra for dumbassery

PD client (and not mine). Thankfully.

 

[Hoji]

Your client is probably not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but then again, a lot of LE have the attitude “looks illegal, guys a dickhead, we’ll let the courts figure it out.”
As far as I know, the slide and barrel are not “firearms” and obliterating a SN should not be any more illegal than taking the tag off a mattress.
guessing the gun in question is a Glock, and also guessing that the gun charge is an “add on” for your client getting caught up in something that he/she could have avoided by thinking their actions through.

Good luck with the case, the SN should not be an issue and should get dropped it don’t let it be a bargaining chip in the plea unless it is a truly spectacular offer.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

What if the barrel had been in a pistol used in a shooting?
Then, just because it has the SN ground off, they decide to check it.

 

[Cobber]

What if the barrel had been in a pistol used in a shooting?
Then, just because it has the SN ground off, they decide to check it.

I haven't had a case yet where the police actually examined the rifling and compared it to recovered bullets. Usually they stop at saying 'this is the caliber of bullet that could have been shot from that firearm.'

 

[GeorgeS]

 

[Hoji]

I have seen a ton of State cases where the defendant was a felon in possession of a firearm and/or ammo and the ATF was nowhere to be found. But they do surface from time to time.

That is not uncommon. Let the defendant be wearing a MAGA hat and I suspect that changes pretty quick.

 

[Txhillbilly]

I can't say that I've ever seen a serial # on a semi-auto pistol stamped any where but the lower receiver. Never on a barrel or slide assembly.

None of mine do.

 

[Hoji]

I can't say that I've ever seen a serial # on a semi-auto pistol stamped any where but the lower receiver. Never on a barrel or slide assembly.

None of mine do.

Humble brag way to say you don’t own a Glock

 

[ZX9RCAM]

They're on my HKs also.
That is off the top of my head.