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Hypothetical situation

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  • Jakashh

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    You are meeting someone to sell an item you listed online. You agree to meet them at an elementary school which they suggested and at first glance seems like a safe bet. You have an LTC and know you are exempt from the GFSZA.

    When you arrive, the area is wooded. Although it’s a weekend afternoon, there are a bunch of people between the ages of 10 to 25 playing in the elementary school park nearby behind a few trees behind where the buyer is standing. He is on foot with no car nearby or in sight.

    Buyer is about 17-24 years old. He inspects the phone but then puts his cash back in his pocket and then lifts a small subcompact semi automatic pistol out of his coat jacket. He doesn’t ever fully take it out and point it at you, but he brandished has t and let’s you know he is taking your item without paying. You are carrying a full size handgun at 4:00 and it is loaded with 18 rounds of 9MM defensive ammo.

    As the thief turns around and starts waking into the trees at a brisk pace, you have the option to silently draw your weapon and attempt to stop them. You are well aware that there are kids playing not 25-50 yards from you in the direction behind some trees that the suspect is headed towards.

    You are running out of time and he is disappearing into the brush with your for sale item, and from the brief encounter with him, are not sure how the perp would react to being drawn upon. Would he submit or shoot back? Would he comply and give up? Would he run? It may be risky to potentially start a gunfight in this area due to the kids behind him (although slightly off to the side) even though you are fairly certain that you can place hits on him so long as he keeps at his current pace.

    At no point did you feel like your life was in imminent danger, as you didn’t even realize what was happening until he already turned around and was fleeing on foot.

    What would you do?


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    Younggun

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    I don't think it would be smart to attempt to stop him in that situation.

    Snap a pic with your phone if possible. Call police. Maybe try to keep track of his location if possible without creating any greater risk of a confrontation.

    If it happened to me and I were making a snap decision I can't say for sure what I would do upon the initial brandishing, but once he's headed away and getting closer to other people I'd try to lead the cops to him making them aware he is armed.
     

    easy rider

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    I don't think it would be smart to attempt to stop him in that situation.

    Snap a pic with your phone if possible. Call police. Maybe try to keep track of his location if possible without creating any greater risk of a confrontation.

    If it happened to me and I were making a snap decision I can't say for sure what I would do upon the initial brandishing, but once he's headed away and getting closer to other people I'd try to lead the cops to him making them aware he is armed.
    Agreed! You don't want to be the aggressor for then it's not self defense.
     

    Jakashh

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    I don't think it would be smart to attempt to stop him in that situation.

    Snap a pic with your phone if possible. Call police. Maybe try to keep track of his location if possible without creating any greater risk of a confrontation.

    If it happened to me and I were making a snap decision I can't say for sure what I would do upon the initial brandishing, but once he's headed away and getting closer to other people I'd try to lead the cops to him making them aware he is armed.

    Back when I was only a few years or less into getting into firearms and self defense (I’ve crested over the peak of my interest in guns up until this point), I’d say that I may try to get him at gunpoint and get him to give me my shit back, but many people who say stuff like that never really fully think about the environment they will be in or even how the perp would comply and the risks of doing so.

    There are millions of variables, and how you think you will act according to these variables is seldom predictable.

    Nowadays I just admit I have no idea what I’d do until I’m put into that situation, so that’s why I’ve tried to paint this somewhat detailed situation and thrown in a few variables to see how people think they’d respond to it.

    There are no right answers lol.


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    Jakashh

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    An elementary school isn't a place I'd agree to meet in the first place...

    Agreed. It’s a pretty stupid place to meet someone, but it can be hard to see how naive you’re being in the moment when you think you’re about to score some cash, and hindsight is always 20/20.


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    Younggun

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    Meh, for a cell phone deal I don't know that I'd care if someone wanted to meet at the local elementary school. Busiest road in town is right beside the parking lot sonits probably about the most visible place to stop.

    For a gun deal, no. For some other item that would draw far less attention in a school parking lot, meh. I can see it being different in other areas.
     

    Younggun

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    Back when I was only a few years or less into getting into firearms and self defense (I’ve crested over the peak of my interest in guns up until this point), I’d say that I may try to get him at gunpoint and get him to give me my shit back, but many people who say stuff like that never really fully think about the environment they will be in or even how the perp would comply and the risks of doing so.

    There are millions of variables, and how you think you will act according to these variables is seldom predictable.

    Nowadays I just admit I have no idea what I’d do until I’m put into that situation, so that’s why I’ve tried to paint this somewhat detailed situation and thrown in a few variables to see how people think they’d respond to it.

    There are no right answers lol.


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    The correct answer is "I don't know you! That's my purse!" *groin kick*
     

    Younggun

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    With LTC it's only illegal to enter the building based on the definition of "premises".

    I'm not a lawyer and haven't looked in a while. Will gladly take the lashes if I'm mistaken.
     

    Jakashh

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    With LTC it's only illegal to enter the building based on the definition of "premises".

    I'm not a lawyer and haven't looked in a while. Will gladly take the lashes if I'm mistaken.

    The cops (County Sheriff and two school district cops who patrol that school) in this hypothetical situation didn’t even seem to care that the one who was robbed was armed. They were more focused on finding the perp and providing live updates from the K-9 unit and other cops who were setting up a perimeter. Perp managed to successfully evade a bunch of officers and a K-9 unit so he probably lives in the adjacent neighborhood and knows the area very well.


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    TxStetson

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    The cops (County Sheriff and two school district cops who patrol that school) in this hypothetical situation didn’t even seem to care that the one who was robbed was armed. They were more focused on finding the perp and providing live updates from the K-9 unit and other cops who were setting up a perimeter. Perp managed to successfully evade a bunch of officers and a K-9 unit so he probably lives in the adjacent neighborhood and knows the area very well.


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    So not such a “hypothetical” situation?
     

    Shady

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    Does the cost of the phone out weigh the cost of you defending what you did when you are cuffed and stuffed for shooting someone.

    Justified or not the bill is way more than the cost of the phone only bonus would be if you killed the scum bag and removed him from the gene pool.


    I would let him walk and chalk it up to me being and Idiot for agreeing to the sale location.
     

    Charlie

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    Does the cost of the phone out weigh the cost of you defending what you did when you are cuffed and stuffed for shooting someone.

    Justified or not the bill is way more than the cost of the phone only bonus would be if you killed the scum bag and removed him from the gene pool.


    I would let him walk and chalk it up to me being and Idiot for agreeing to the sale location.
    This! Definitely a very poor location to meet.
     

    Brains

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    Yeah, I wouldn't ever accept meeting at a school for any item that has a high probability for theft. I like locations that are reasonably public, likelihood of good security camera coverage, easy for the seller and myself to get in and out, and well agreed-upon terms ahead of the sale. I've bought and sold a few phones over the years, and thankfully all transactions were painless. That's not to say they haven't been weird, because some of them definitely were, but in the end they went smoothly.
     

    easy rider

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    Yeah, I wouldn't ever accept meeting at a school for any item that has a high probability for theft. I like locations that are reasonably public, likelihood of good security camera coverage, easy for the seller and myself to get in and out, and well agreed-upon terms ahead of the sale. I've bought and sold a few phones over the years, and thankfully all transactions were painless. That's not to say they haven't been weird, because some of them definitely were, but in the end they went smoothly.
    Many schools have all that, it's more, in my thoughts anyway, that laws can be a bit sketchy if there were a need to defend myself in a situation like that. There are many better places.
     

    Texas42

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    You are meeting someone to sell an item you listed online. You agree to meet them at an elementary school which they suggested and at first glance seems like a safe bet. You have an LTC and know you are exempt from the GFSZA.

    When you arrive, the area is wooded. Although it’s a weekend afternoon, there are a bunch of people between the ages of 10 to 25 playing in the elementary school park nearby behind a few trees behind where the buyer is standing. He is on foot with no car nearby or in sight.

    Buyer is about 17-24 years old. He inspects the phone but then puts his cash back in his pocket and then lifts a small subcompact semi automatic pistol out of his coat jacket. He doesn’t ever fully take it out and point it at you, but he brandished has t and let’s you know he is taking your item without paying. You are carrying a full size handgun at 4:00 and it is loaded with 18 rounds of 9MM defensive ammo.

    As the thief turns around and starts waking into the trees at a brisk pace, you have the option to silently draw your weapon and attempt to stop them. You are well aware that there are kids playing not 25-50 yards from you in the direction behind some trees that the suspect is headed towards.

    You are running out of time and he is disappearing into the brush with your for sale item, and from the brief encounter with him, are not sure how the perp would react to being drawn upon. Would he submit or shoot back? Would he comply and give up? Would he run? It may be risky to potentially start a gunfight in this area due to the kids behind him (although slightly off to the side) even though you are fairly certain that you can place hits on him so long as he keeps at his current pace.

    At no point did you feel like your life was in imminent danger, as you didn’t even realize what was happening until he already turned around and was fleeing on foot.

    What would you do?


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    As he turns, I'll stab him through the shoulder, severing bone, brachial plexus, axillary artery up to the subclavian. Then, in one fluid motion, wipe out my CHL badge and bear hug him till he succumbs. If he somehow gets his pistol out with his offhand or abnormal nerve anatomy, I'll use my 5.11 sepa plates o deflect upcoming rounds in a safe direction (probably back at the perp, but i haven't been able to practice this at my personal dojo as the master doesn't let us practice with live ammo).

    I will then wave at the adoring child masses whom I have saved. The most beautiful unaatached teacher will withdraw the knife, clean the blade with a handkerchief and hand it back with her number on it.

    (I thought this tread needed some bluster)
     
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