How tight of a reign?

[StevenC.]

This post is an invite to share how tight of a reign you keep on your students.

To put context to the question, presume Basic/Beginner instruction and small class (1-3 students). A tight reign would be when a student does not touch the gun, load a round of ammunition, insert a mag, chamber a round or fire a shot without a specific instruction to do so.

A loose reign would be more like "Load and fire 3 shots at your leisure," and, "Continually load and fire 3 (or 5) rounds at a time until I ask you to stop."

I volunteer I am a very loose reign instructor. After instructing the student to load and fire 1 shot, then instructing them to load and fire 3 shots, I instruct them to load and fire three round strings for anywhere from 12 to 21 additional shots and their leisure. I use that time to coach and get them comfortable with with shooting in a Basic Class. But that is because the classes are very small, 1 student most of the time, up to four on very rare occasions.

I would ask that you not berate or mock another's preference so that we can hear their thoughts as to why they hold the reigns tight or loose.

Thanks for posting.

 

[TXDARKHORSE361]

I am new to the instructor game and haven't given any official classes yet, however based on my personal thought process and past experience with classes I've been in/helped with I believe it would depend on the class and students. If it was an absolute beginner class the reigns would be a little tighter than a novice class, that being said again depending on the students could change the whole attitude. If everyone is demonstrating competence and safety I would be more lax (not complacent) than I would if I had a few people having problems. I am firm however if a student was being downright unsafe and not getting the message then the door is over there. I've been very lucky in every class I've attended as a student where the instructor has been above average to excellent, on the range officer side of the house I've never had to kick anyone out but I have had to remind people where they are as well as patch up some cases of slide bite and the like.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I would say I'd be loose to medium reign for beginning students. Generally, what I like to do with newer students is to first give some initial instruction on handling the gun at the firing line, giving them a few specific ways to do certain "administrative" things, which will hopefully eliminate a lot of questions and unknowns with that initial handling and manipulating the gun. What I mean by that is, I'll usually start off with the following:

-I will have already had them bring their gun cases / range bags up to the firing line and placed on the firing bench.
-I will give them specific instructions to only uncase their gun with the gun pointed down range, with a quick couple second demo showing how I'd simply turn the bag/case around if I thought the gun wasn't pointed down range, and then I'd uncase it.
-From there, I like to help them set themselves up for success by giving them a method they can use for placing their gun on the shooting bench.

• Basically, clear the gun, lock the action open, and place the gun on the bench with the grip/mag well facing towards your gun hand side.
• Leave the mag on the bench with the bottom of it facing your opposite side.
• This way they can set down and pick up the gun without having to fumble with it, flip the gun over, or grab the gun with their non gun hand and pass it to the gun hand, etc.

-I'll give them a couple of quick recommendations that, if they're not sure about something, have problems doing something, have a malfunction (if I'm not next to them at the time), etc. they can simply set the gun down the same way.

That sounds like a lot, but the way I usually break it down, we're talking a few seconds, maybe 1 minute to cover all of that in such a manner that they all pretty well understand, and I think it answers a lot of questions that a lot of beginners don't even think to ask and usually end up doing it a thousand different ways, ultimately leading to a lot of random issues. With that, I find I can have a fairly loose reign, and give them general instructions along the way and let them do their thing, helping correct mistakes as necessary, all the while with each block of instruction or "module" adding another piece to the puzzle, working out the kinks in their load process, or with their grip, etc.

With a bit more experienced students that appear to be relatively safe, my focus is usually in getting them to understand when and how to go back to the holster. Often, where I see a lot of problems arise is in those administrative tasks. IE - They need or think they need to do something, and the easiest safest thing to do is first go back to the holster, but instead they keep their gun in hand and try to do that thing. For example, picking up spent mags off of the ground, or if they're fiddling around too long, trying to find a mag in their pocket. I focus on helping them understand and correcting as necessary, so they just reholster instead of over-complicating things and potentially running into safety issues. This usually isn't a huge thing, or something that takes up a significant amount of time, it's usually just subtle things here and there. Like an initial minute of describing why you might want to do this, then the occasional correction when people forget, and after a correction or two, it usually just clicks.

Generally, in addition to all of this, my major focus beyond providing a bit of guidance, structure, and the fundamentals, is in allowing them to have as many opportunities as possible to figure some things out on their own, problem solve, etc. As long as it's safe, regardless of how they choose to do something, you'll often either end up with some good teaching points ("Hey, that was great! Check this out, though. Here's an easier way to do it."), or with some great examples for positive reinforcement to really encourage them and build their confidence.

 

[TXDARKHORSE361]

Thanks for that, I took a lot in and hope to apply it where I can. Really makes sense when you think about it, nobody likes to be told what to do but if you can do it in a way that doesn't feel like they're being treated like babies more will stick and be understood.

 

[StevenC.]

That sounds a lot like what and how I teach the same content SIG_Fiend.

A lot of that comes under the major block of instruction called Safety and a sub-block of Responsible Firearm Ownership called Range Etiquette. By showing them a blue gun in a typical gun case pointed left or right, directly at them they appreciate how uncomfortable it is and how it is clearly a safety violation as soon as the gun is touched. Amazing how a simple turn of the gun case 90 derees is such a foreign concept to some-people. This trains them to not do it and what to be on the watch for. The same with people who flop the gun across their body to rack the slide or look at the mag release to press it. Having been muzzled several times with the blue gun they rarely perform those same unsafe acts themselves.

Exactly right, TXDH361- most people will raise to your expectations, if you treat them like adults they will tend to act like adults. Constant reinforcement of their proper, safer, even professional gun handling will encourage the same.

In my experience it works exceedingly well with the scared beginners. Instead of babying their fear, praise their proper performance.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

One of the things I've noticed from several instructors, that I think is a very valuable teaching point that is totally subconscious, subtle, and not often talked about, is the manner in which an instructor conducts themselves while teaching. What I'm speaking about specifically is, how does the instructor handle firearms while instructing/demonstrating, how do they handle blue guns, how do they demonstrate what they're describing, etc.? Personally, it's my belief that if you do certain things as an instructor, that many students will subconsciously pick up on them, and some of these habits might make their way into the students' psyche. Best case scenario, those subconscious aspects might even make their way into the students' psyche to the point that the student feels them. They might not realize why they do, they may simply just feel some discomfort and unease if certain things happen around them with firearms. For example, even when handling a blue gun while I'm demonstrating something to students (after I've briefly and clearly explained what the blue gun is), the vast majority of the time (maybe 90-98%), I still observe all of the firearm safety principles, exercise excellent muzzle control, and usually end up bringing the blue gun into position sul or another safe and muzzle down position if I'm turning a bit more towards the students, to better address them. If I'm going to point the blue gun at any students, to demonstrate something specifically, I will tell them that I'm going to do so that it is clear that this will not be a casual thing. The idea being, great care is taken and demonstrated, and everything leading up to actually pointing a blue gun at the student is fairly substantial. I've found, for some students, building these subtle behavioral cues into my instruction has helped really drive certain points home with many students, to the point where some of them even wince a bit or show visible signs of discomfort in the general appearance of someone pointing something at them. My thought process behind all of this, as far as it relates to safety and beginner/novice students, is if I can help them to feel and perceive many of these things, that right off the bat even their subconscious should start helping them in terms of remaining safe, detecting unsafe behaviors when they're on their own, and hopefully dealing with them in an appropriate manner.

I take this even so far as to observe the same self-restraint if demonstrating something on video. The way I look at it, even if you're watching a firearms training video, and even if there isn't a camera guy directly behind that camera, and even if the instructor isn't technically violating any safety rules on camera, if the gun is being pointed at the camera, you're still seeing the gun pointed at YOU while you're watching the video, and it would be good if the student feels a bit of unease at seeing that. Normally, I think for a lot of people, they see that behavior on video, and it's no big deal, and that perceived behavior or lack of discomfort might also follow them in reality which isn't a great thing. This is one of my big pet peeves with a lot of instructors putting out training videos. Like, you wouldn't do this in class (hopefully), so why do it on video and potentially teach students different behaviors? Even today, myself, I still wince a bit when I'm watching a firearms training video, and the instructor is casually pointing the gun at the camera. Call it OCD, I just call it a good habit.

A lot of instructors I've seen just act very nonchalant about waving blue guns around, pointed at students, being a bit too eager and loose with their own muzzle control if holding/manipulating even a cleared and safe actual gun (even if they're not muzzle sweeping, I think the appearance of, "Hey I'm gonna move this gun around like it's no big deal, coming within a very few degrees of pointing it at you..." just doesn't do the student any service.

 

[StevenC.]

I offer a slightly different take.

While the vast majority of the time I model firearm safety with the blue gun, I bought it specifically to illustrate things which would be unsafe with a gun, a real gun. Since it's not a gun, it's not a firearm safety violation.

Other that the half-dozen specific situations where what I intentionally do with the blue would be a safety violation I attempt to be the very model of firearm safety.

Other wise I agree. I show students stills from certain videos where ego trumps safety and assure them such nonsense will not be condoned in my class.

 

[V-Tach]

I can relate to general firearm classes, even beginner, but with CHL Classes, it's a tight reign.....With all other classes we actually have class time before the range. We do give a range briefing before the CHL Classes, but for a variety of reasons, some folks don't retain all the information.

We qualify at the beginning of the class, for a couple of reasons. One, is the range is not open yet and there is no need to pull shooters off the line and interrupt them. Two, is there is no peanut gallery. As we are all aware, the CHL qualification is not really to teach them anything, but to evaluate them. (I will try to give someone pointers and assistance when they are struggling, but not to the point of disrupting the group's rhythm. We do check all firearms and ammunition before the qualification.

We intentionally keep all class sizes small (whatever the class) and limit them to 10 people. We run two instructors and a 5-1 ration is manageable for us. I do use blue guns for demonstrations and as above, will never point one at a student without their permission and agree with Sig Fiend's analogy and observation. I personally don't feel comfortable pointing blue gun at them and do so only when necessary and as briefly as possible.

Daryl and I have discussed online video instructors at some length and with some it's more a personality that attracts people to them, not their actual skills and abilities..Others, well...that's another thread to itself....

 

[Hoji]

I teach a class to the lowest common denominator. On a typical Level III 40 hour class, I will have a good idea of who that is in the first few hours. I am tight reigned as over the course of almost 20 years of teaching firearms classes I have seen almost every "oh shit" moment there is( have not had anyone shoot themselves or others)

CHL/LTC I am a little more relaxed, but then the only people I am doing those classes for are close friends and family, and I have been shooting with them for years.

If I am doing one on one instruction for a LEO or fed.gov security officer who has failed their agency qualification, it is a tight reigned class.

If it is for a first time shooter, it starts out tight reigned, and depending on how comfortable the student is( and I am) I will relax the reigns a little as the class progresses.