How do you REALLY feel about metal guns?

[zackmars]

Yes and no.

9s and 10s came about due to Demand. And yes, they help with lost sales due to dilution, not True lost sales. There used to be only a handful of 1911 makers and there is a plethora of makers.

That is mostly thanks to the AWB. The 1911 became the go to choice for carry when higher capacity guns were restricted to 10 rounds, so why not get a .45?

If it weren't for the AWB, the average 1911 would look like any other 1911a1, and wouldn't have all the other small quality of life improvements outside custom guns

As for what sells, sorry, but ask any decent sized shop what pistol calibers sell and what doesn't. 9mm sells many times over .45. Both in ammo and in guns.

 

[oldag]

Yes and no.

9s and 10s came about due to Demand. And yes, they help with lost sales due to dilution, not True lost sales. There used to be only a handful of 1911 makers and there is a plethora of makers.

Waste of time arguing with someone who thinks the 9 mm is the most effective self defense round in existance

 

[zackmars]

Waste of time arguing with someone who thinks the 9 mm is the most effective self defense round in existance

It's called "being objective". You'd be amazed what happens when you let go of your pride and ego.

It is effective not because it is "good" but because it is the least terrible.

How long untill you realize this?

 

[oldag]

It's called "being objective". You'd be amazed what happens when you let go of your pride and ego.

It is effective not because it is "good" but because it is the least terrible.

How long untill you realize this?

You are one funny guy.

Love the pretzel "logic".

Bless your heart.

 

[zackmars]

You are one funny guy.

Love the pretzel "logic".

Bless your heart.

Do you work at a gun shop? With terrible advicle like you have, you'd fit right in.

Today, we know more about ballistics and fighting with firearms than we ever have before. We know that theres no difference in ballistics in 9, .40, or .45

So what does your .45 do that justifies it's selection over 9 or .40?

 

[Reinz]

That is mostly thanks to the AWB. The 1911 became the go to choice for carry when higher capacity guns were restricted to 10 rounds, so why not get a .45?

If it weren't for the AWB, the average 1911 would look like any other 1911a1, and wouldn't have all the other small quality of life improvements outside custom guns

As for what sells, sorry, but ask any decent sized shop what pistol calibers sell and what doesn't. 9mm sells many times over .45. Both in ammo and in guns.

‘Gotta agree with ya on the AWB thing. That was the big kick starter. But then I was shooting 1911s before it was “cool”.

Sure 9mm outsells 45. It’s the Gansta round and newbies think it must be better. Normal gun guys, especially those without a lot of disposable income find 9mm much easier to afford. Others find the the softer recoiling a huge plus as well, especially the girlie men (sorry, I had to at least throw one dig! Ha,ha!). Don’t get me wrong, I have lots of 9s. Not trying to be argumentative, just throwing my 2 cents in.

 

[oldag]

Do you work at a gun shop? With terrible advicle like you have, you'd fit right in.

Today, we know more about ballistics and fighting with firearms than we ever have before. We know that theres no difference in ballistics in 9, .40, or .45

So what does your .45 do that justifies it's selection over 9 or .40?

No difference in ballistics? That is simply a false statement. Period. With a .45 twice the momentum imparted. 230 grains.

With a HP, twice the diameter hole with a .45. Larger wound channel. Twice the numbers of nerves screaming.

If you like 9 mm, well bless your heart. But trying to say there is no difference is simply foolish.

Go ahead and keep trying to convince yourself. I'm done wasting electrons.

 

[zackmars]

‘Gotta agree with ya on the AWB thing. That was the big kick starter. But then I was shooting 1911s before it was “cool”.

Sure 9mm outsells 45. It’s the Gansta round and newbies think it must be better. Normal gun guys, especially those without a lot of disposable income find 9mm much easier to afford. Others find the the softer recoiling a huge plus as well, especially the girlie men (sorry, I had to at least throw one dig! Ha,ha!). Don’t get me wrong, I have lots of 9s. Not trying to be argumentative, just throwing my 2 cents in.

You can funnily enough thank kimber for starting the trend of bringing custom features into factory guns.

You can't really say that a success of a caliber due to "gangsta" nonsense, simply due to how often the cool new gangsta round of choice changes. 9mm, .40, .45, whatever rhymes in their songs. Though I suppose you could credit the success of the draco pistols on gangsta culture.

The trend I've seen is for whatever is cheapest, lots of trade in pistols that tend to be in .40. Lots of hi points. And bersa's.

 

[Moonpie]

How many 1911 makers are there now?
Colt, Wilson, Baer, Dan Wesson, S&W, SIG, Kimber, Ruger, Armscor, and many others.
Somebody is buying them.

 

[zackmars]

No difference in ballistics? That is simply a false statement. Period. With a .45 twice the momentum imparted. 230 grains.

With a HP, twice the diameter hole. Larger wound channel. Twice the numbers of nerves screaming.

If you like 9 mm, well bless your heart. But trying to say there is no difference is simply foolish.

Cool, I'm not even going to bother explaining to you how ballistics actually works.

But i will leave you with this, a bowling ball at a 24 mph release has the same kinetic energy as a 45acp 230gr ball at the muzzle.

You go on and carry your .45, I'm not going to stop you, hell, I'm carrying a .45 right now, but you don't even know the slightest thing about ballistics.

 

[oldag]

Cool, I'm not even going to bother explaining to you how ballistics actually works.

But i will leave you with this, a bowling ball at a 24 mph release has the same kinetic energy as a 45acp 230gr ball at the muzzle.

You go on and carry your .45, I'm not going to stop you, hell, I'm carrying a .45 right now, but you don't even know the slightest thing about ballistics.

I happen to have a degree in mechanical engineering, ace. Want to try and teach me something about momentum or kinetic energy?

If you believe kinetic energy is the best way to compare handgun rounds, then you want a gun that shoots a sewing needle at really high velocity. This will have many times the kinetic energy of any round. {Why? Because in the energy calculation velocity is squared. E=0.5mV^2} Yet anyone with a shred of intelligence knows that such a gun would not be effective.

And by the way, if you think a bowling ball in the chest at 24 mph won't knock you down, let's meet at a bowling alley.

Please educate yourself, or go back to just being a fanboy without trying to offer up justification.

 

[zackmars]

How many 1911 makers are there now?
Colt, Wilson, Baer, Dan Wesson, S&W, SIG, Kimber, Ruger, Armscor, and many others.
Somebody is buying them.

Colt is stagnant, they have a grand total of what, 5 different gun models they are making?

Wilson, beretta, glock, and x9 are all non-1911 guns, they also make AR's

Baer, they are a pure 1911 shop AFAIK

Dan wesson, DWX.

S&W, M&P, revolvers, AR's

Sig, pretty much everything

Kimber, revolvers, rifles

Ruger, they make pretty much everything under the sun

Armscor, mostly 1911's, but they have some other stuff, but I'm not too familiar

A lot of the companies you list sell much more than 1911's

 

[oldag]

Colt is stagnant, they have a grand total of what, 5 different gun models they are making?

Wilson, beretta, glock, and x9 are all non-1911 guns, they also make AR's

Baer, they are a pure 1911 shop AFAIK

Dan wesson, DWX.

S&W, M&P, revolvers, AR's

Sig, pretty much everything

Kimber, revolvers, rifles

Ruger, they make pretty much everything under the sun

Armscor, mostly 1911's, but they have some other stuff, but I'm not too familiar

A lot of the companies you list sell much more than 1911's

But they do sell 1911's.

Your point is entirely meaningless, other than confirming Moonpie.

 

[zackmars]

I happen to have a degree in mechanical engineering, ace. Want to try and teach me something about momentum, kinetic energy?

If you believe kinetic energy is the best way to compare handgun rounds is kinetic energy, then you want a gun that shoots a sewing needle at really high velocity. This will have many times the kinetic energy of any round. {Why? Because in the energy calculation velocity is squared. E=0.5mV^2} Yet anyone with a shred of intelligence knows that such a gun would not be effective.

And by the way, if you think a bowling ball in the chest at 24 mph won't knock you down, let's meet at a bowling alley.

Please educate yourself, or go back to just being a fanboy without trying to offer up justification.

Im no fanboy, the gun i carry is from a company i have zeto love for.

I'll give you $20 if you can find where i said a 24mph bowling ball won't knock me down.

I'll wait here. Untill then, try not to wander atound and put words in peoples mouths.

 

[zackmars]

But they do sell 1911's.

Your point is entirely meaningless, other than confirming Moonpie.

They offer them for sell. That doesn't mean much. Virtually all the companies he listed STARTED selling 1911's, but have moved to other guns.

Why?

Well it's because 1911's aren't selling as much as they did 10 years ago, and you have to stay afloat somehow

 

[oldag]

Im no fanboy, the gun i carry is from a company i have zeto love for.

I'll give you $20 if you can find where i said a 24mph bowling ball won't knock me down.

I'll wait here. Untill then, try not to wander atound and put words in peoples mouths.

You used the 24 mph bowling ball example in talking down the .45.

 

[oldag]

Well it's because 1911's aren't selling as much as they did 10 years ago, and you have to stay afloat somehow

Back that up with real sales figures.

 

[zackmars]

You used the 24 mph bowling ball example in talking down the .45.

In refrence to momentum

Can you not read? Are you so bored that you have to construct imaginary arguments in your head?

Nobody needs to talk down .45. People like you need to talk it up because you have failed in being remotely objective in your choice.

Instead of just saying "nah, .45 ain't perfect, but i like it" you have to spew retardation

Give it a rest

 

[zackmars]

Back that up with real sales figures.

The fact they don't sell ONLY 1911s is my burden of proof.

Your burden of proof would be sells figures saying they don't need DWX's, custom Berettas, glocks, etc.

 

[oldag]

In refrence to momentum

Can you not read? Are you so bored that you have to construct imaginary arguments in your head?

Nobody needs to talk down .45. People like you need to talk it up because you have failed in being remotely objective in your choice.

Instead of just saying "nah, .45 ain't perfect, but i like it" you have to spew retardation

Give it a rest

I have listed reasons which you are either ignoring or lack the comprehension to understand.

You have yet to offer up a single reason why the 9 mm is the most effective self defense round. And then you accuse someone else of not being objective? Pot. Kettle. Black.