Honest conversation with a Fudd.

[vmax]

Ok..maybe Fudd isn't the exact best way to describe these 2 but was at a freinds house and a few beers were opened and a roundtable discussion came up about open carry and now Constitutional Carry on Texas
One guy said that "Open carrying a gun in a certain situation just makes you a target for the bad guys"
And of course..I did not let that go unchecked...and told him that was just not the case in documented situations with years of data to go on...and even though the theory sounds plausible..there just isn't enough evidence to give it any weight of being correct.
He conceded and actually took in the new information without rebuttal.

Then...the whole Constitutional Carry thing came up.
"I just hate that anyone in Texas without a felony can carry a gun now with no training
There is going to all sorts of people shooting without training and innocent people are going to get killed"

That one got me hot under the collar and I had to cool off before jumping in.
So many layers in had to unpack.

First off..is the 2nd Amendment a right or a privilege ?
What about the 1st?
Do you have to training to speak at a public event? To write an article and publish it?

And again...about 15 states have had CC for years before Texas and there isn't FBI data to back up that bad theory either. Otherwise the gun haters would be using it against us.

These guys listened and points were made and more beers drank and I think maybe I got thru a little.

 

[ronr68]

Good work. Gave them something to think about.

 

[candcallen]

 

[crystalphoto]

Do you have to training to speak at a public event?

Probably be a good idea if some people did have...

 

[Daley_G]

Good on you, OP. They got their "knowledge" from the media and then were open enough to receive factual information. What society fails to understand is that the legalities never matter to the ones we protect ourselves against - they're going to carry unlawfully, and potentially execute unlawfully. The laws only apply to law-abiding citizens, not criminals.

 

[FireInTheWire]

The info you shared goes against what we perceive as "common sense." But the beauty of it is, the data lays it out clearly. Can't tell you how many times I have heard what the "fudds" said.

Hell, it took lots of reading from me to let open carry soak in.

 

[Axxe55]

When you put mandatory requirements, or having to pay a tax to exercise a right, it's no longer a right, but a privilege a few are afforded the opportunity to use.

You did good @vmax

 

[Sasquatch]

I don't typically have a problem with open carry - I do sometimes have an issue with *how* some folks chose to open carry - based on concern for their own safety and the safety of those around them. When I see a guy open-carrying in one of those $5 nylon POS fit-anything type holsters, and he's not even paying attention to his surroundings - that's a guy who is more likely to have his gun snatched and used against him or someone else than to ever ward off a bad guy, or use his gun successfully to defend himself. Some folks grow out of it, but some never do because they don't see value in paying more for "just a holster." There are documented instances where open carrier were relieved of their firearms, and there are documented instances where an open-carrier used his firearm in self defense successfully.

I err on the side of freedom, but when I see Tactical Theodore come in with his UTG nylon shit, or his drop leg with his Taurus 24/7 flopping around, I also err on getting the hell out of wherever because in my experience with these types, gun safety and situational awareness tend to escape them.

We shouldn't need a license or permission slip to carry any damn place open to the public. I do wish more gun owners would take their own safety and skills more seriously and see the inherent responsibility that comes with the right to keep and bear arms - like being safe, being aware of your surroundings, and knowing how to use your tools IF the situation calls for them to be used.

 

[Hoji]

Imagine how satisfying it would be to just take a baseball bat to the television of the person who has those ideas ( as well as mask nonsense) and afterwards just say “you’re welcome”

But seriously, good conversation. Hope it cleared some fog.

 

[Sam7sf]

"I just hate that anyone in Texas without a felony can carry a gun now with no training
There is going to all sorts of people shooting without training and innocent people are going to get killed"

Some people struggle to walk and dress themselves yet the first amendment allows them to share opinions.

Let’s break this down: He hates that anyone in Texas without a felony can carry a gun? Dude...this is irrelevant when a large amount of people with disqualifying factors have guns on them or in cars anyway. People will ultimately do whatever they want so he can stfu or go get a career in law enforcement and help out.

People shooting without training and innocent people are going to get killed? Does he have his handling skills in order? Does he without fail choose the safest range possible? Is he up for being observed so we can tell him what he needs to improve on?

I will say this...if I know someone talked like he did and witnessed poor handling/sweeping people/poor range choices all I have to say is they can stfu.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

vmax,

I applaud your efforts.

Me, I have zero patience when I hear uneducated gun opinions.

I've tried in the past to civilly introduce educated/ reasoned, pro-gun gun ideas, but have so often come up against bullheaded, intransigence because anti-gun people have been so propagandized that there's no reasoning they'll agree with...

Guns r bad, mkay they say and that attitude just makes me shake my head in disgust and speak with them no further...

 

[Axxe55]

vmax,

I applaud your efforts.

Me, I have zero patience when I hear uneducated gun opinions.

I've tried in the past to civilly introduce educated/ reasoned, pro-gun gun ideas, but have so often come up against bullheaded, intransigence because anti-gun people have been so propagandized that there's no reasoning they'll agree with...

Guns r bad, mkay they say and that attitude just makes me shake my head in disgust and speak with them no further...

There is a difference between a FUDD and a true anti-gun person. There is the chance with a FUDD that you can reason and change their minds to their misguided misconceptions and beliefs, while with a true rabid anti-gun person, most I have talked to will never listen to reason, logic, common sense or facts that disprove their opinions about guns and gun owners. Those are not worth wasting breath or energy with.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

Axxe55,

Agreed!

But FUDD or hysterical anti-gun nut - I've zero patience with either at this point in life.

 

[Moonpie]

Fudds at heart are elitists. The believe their Way is the one true faith. All others are infidels. Not worth defending. Etc etc.
They’ll never come for my turdy-turdy or 12ga 1100.
Well dipshit. Guess what.

No different than libtards really.

At this point in my life I don’t have the time or energy to give a crap what they think.
And just like liberals you’ll never change their mind with rational discussion.

 

[Axxe55]

Fudds at heart are elitists. The believe their Way is the one true faith. All others are infidels. Not worth defending. Etc etc.
They’ll never come for my turdy-turdy or 12ga 1100.
Well dipshit. Guess what.

No different than libtards really.

At this point in my life I don’t have the time or energy to give a crap what they think.
And just like liberals you’ll never change their mind with rational discussion.

I can agree with the first part of your post, but how will you know if you can change their mind's with an honest rational discussion unless you try?

 

[Younggun]

I can agree with the first part of your post, but how will you know if you can change their mind's with an honest rational discussion unless you try?

Ugh, I have to agree with Axxe. Gross!


I also believe that failing to have these conversations simply cedes the ground to the left and MSM propaganda. Unless we are willing to go out and refute the lies, we will eventually find ourselves completely outnumbered wondering how on earth things could have gotten so out of hand.

Heard a guy in a tire shop talking about how with open carry cops wouldn’t know who the criminals are. I asked him how a cop could tell if everyone including the criminals had their firearms concealed. He didn’t have an answer. Don’t know if it had any effect on him, but the couple others in the shop listening to him seemed to be pretty dismissive of his narrative afterwards.

It’s not just about the person you are speaking to, it’s also about the people listening who might never have payed enough attention to form much of an opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BRD@66]

I've got a bud who is opposed to constitutional carry but he's a convicted felon so...

 

[TipBledsoe]

View attachment 308086

That’s what I was thinking too!

 

[Axxe55]

Ugh, I have to agree with Axxe. Gross!


I also believe that failing to have these conversations simply cedes the ground to the left and MSM propaganda. Unless we are willing to go out and refute the lies, we will eventually find ourselves completely outnumbered wondering how on earth things could have gotten so out of hand.

Heard a guy in a tire shop talking about how with open carry cops wouldn’t know who the criminals are. I asked him how a cop could tell if everyone including the criminals had their firearms concealed. He didn’t have an answer. Don’t know if it had any effect on him, but the couple others in the shop listening to him seemed to be pretty dismissive of his narrative afterwards.

It’s not just about the person you are speaking to, it’s also about the people listening who might never have payed enough attention to form much of an opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A lot of fence sitters hear things from both sides, and need to hear the truth and the facts.

 

[leVieux]

Some people struggle to walk and dress themselves yet the first amendment allows them to share opinions.

Let’s break this down: He hates that anyone in Texas without a felony can carry a gun? Dude...this is irrelevant when a large amount of people with disqualifying factors have guns on them or in cars anyway. People will ultimately do whatever they want so he can stfu or go get a career in law enforcement and help out.

People shooting without training and innocent people are going to get killed? Does he have his handling skills in order? Does he without fail choose the safest range possible? Is he up for being observed so we can tell him what he needs to improve on?

I will say this...if I know someone talked like he did and witnessed poor handling/sweeping people/poor range choices all I have to say is they can stfu.

Err, I know what you mean, especially with "a large amount of people with disqualifying factors have guns on them or in cars anyway".

But your post surely comes across as unnecessarily RUDE to another member here !

leVieux