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Going to a gun auction, again

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  • benenglish

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    Webster's Auction Palace in Houston had another gun auction yesterday, Sunday. Pictures of the goods can be found here.

    I'll split this into two or three posts since I don't want to hit the word limit and the subject just naturally needs to be divvied up into basic categories.

    First a general observation. Webster's is just as sleazy as always. The auctioneer talks up lots in ways that make anyone knowledgeable shake their head in amazement or irritation. This time he even got called out from the audience for citing a manufacturer's price off the web but not correctly identifying the product; he just ignored it. He also combined lots that could not be combined (would require splitting cases between bidders) unless he got lucky (which he did on this day). There's more but the place hasn't changed its basic hustle in the 30 or so years I've known of its existence. The lack of professionalism, lack of subject matter knowledge, and overall oily used car salesman vibe is baked into the culture. Just be forewarned if you go there in the future. You can get bargains but you've got to be on your toes.

    Second, I want to acknowledge the cooperation of my sister. She's scared of the wu-flu and doesn't want me to bring it into the house. Given her health, that's reasonable and I generally acquiesce to her on these matters. But I wanted to go to this and asked her if she was OK with it. We agreed that if the place was packed, I'd skip the auction. Well, it wasn't packed. I estimate there were about 75 people in the building, including the workers. 90% were wearing masks. Social distancing was easy if you wanted to do it but no one from the auction was enforcing any rules. I'd feel more at risk at the grocery store if I went on a Friday afternoon.

    This auction was an estate sale. There have already been two gun auctions out of this estate and there will be at least one more.

    I'll start with the items that were not in lots. They were just randomly thrown into the action during the day. The prices I quote are the hammer prices as I heard them. There may be errors (I'll put a question mark next to any price I'm unsure of) and I zoned out and simply didn't get some of them. To know the out-the-door price, add the 15% buyer's premium and tax. (At least I think there's tax. I didn't buy anything so I'm not sure.) Where I don't mention the quantity on an item, there were dozens; ask me if you're interested in specifics.
    • A random selection of nylon bags ranging from poor excuses for range bags down to tiny belt pouches - $10 each
    • Ammo cans, plastic and steel, mostly 7.62 and 5.56 size - $15 each
    • .22LR AR mags - $25 each
    • Rifle cases, some mfg cases but mostly cheap ones, almost all sized for a disassembled AR - $35 each
    • Scopes and red dots, looked to be half Bushnell and half NcStar - $90 each
    • The last three piece-o-crap NcStar red dots - $45 each
    • Box of misc AR parts, mostly take-off stocks, buffer tubes, and various springs - $50
    • *Many* unidentified pistol mags - $20 each
    • Remington 1100 parts, including three bbls and almost 3 stocks - $225
    • About a dozen Briley chokes in aftermarket boxes plus some misc parts - $140
    • 14 5-gallon buckets of 12 ga shotgun shells, per the auctioneer ~550 in each bucket - $5 per bucket
      • These sold so cheap because they looked like they'd been in a flood. They were covered with dried slime/silt and whatever accident happened to them apparently destroyed their boxes.
    • A motley collection of a dozen pairs of shooting glasses, cleaning supplies, and targets - $60
    • Winchester Ranger Deluxe 45 safe, 1-hour fire rating, advertised capacity of 51 long guns - $1000
    • American Security floor safe, 2-hour fire rating, advertised capacity of 20 long guns - $900
    • A box of 22 Beretta 92 mags - $20 each
    • Mag pouches, 6-mag capacity, with various unknown pistol mags mostly filling the available slots - $50 each
    Well, that was shorter than I thought it would be. I don't see any good buys on that list but it's always possible that some of the magazines sold were worth a good deal more than was paid. I kinda doubt it.

    My next post will be the gun prices. I'll follow that with the ammo prices.
    Gun Zone Deals
     

    benenglish

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    There were 50 firearms at the auction.

    The deceased had a bad habit of refinishing his milsurp rifles. The work was competently done and the wood was often very pretty. However, should a beat-up old Mosin stock really look like a newly-polished floor? I dunno; milsurp isn't my world.
    • New Haven 600 ET .410ga Shotgun - $250
    • Intrastate Arms 7.62x39 Rifle - $350
    • PW Arms 7.62x54R Rifle - $250
      • This was a slickly refinished Mosin.
    • Turkish Mauser 98M 8mm Rifle - $200
    • Zastava M24-47 8mm Mauser Rifle - $275
    • Westernfield M550ED .410ga Shotgun - $175
    • CAI Turkish Mauser M1903 8mm Mauser Rifle - $125
      • Looked original and nice. I think this was a bargain but it was sold so fast I couldn't get my bidder number in the air in time.
    • Norinco SKS 7.62x39 Rifle - $325
    • Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 22LR Rifle - $350
      • Pink camo. :)
    • PW Arms K31 7.5 x 55 Rifle - $525
    • CAI Russian 1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $275
      • Refinished
    • Swiss K31 7.5 Swiss Rifle - $400
      • Refinished.
        • I'm going to stop noting the refinished rifles since I stopped taking notes. Most of the milsurp rifles had refinished stocks. I didn't see any elaborate metal restoration on anything.
    • Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 22LR Rifle - $425
      • This was actually a pistol, not a rifle.
    • ATI SKS 7.62x39 Rifle - $550
      • This one had the grenade laucher sights, etc.
    • Revelation 120 22LR Rifle - $125
    • Ruger P90 45ACP Pistol - $450
    • Bersa Thunder 380 .380 Pistol - $275
    Just stopping to take brief notice of something I observed, something irritating but also comical in how obvious it was. There was a black family occupying the left side, front row at this auction. Whenever anything nice or expensive came out, the floor workers would completely ignore them and show off the gun everywhere else in the room. But that Ruger and that Bersa? Those cheap, department store rifles? They practically shoved those and all the other cheap guns in their faces. Sigh and smdh.
    • Zastava PW Arms M57 7.62mm Pistol - $175
    • Browning 1911 .380 Pistol - $700
      • Very pretty with polished flats and a very dark finish elsewhere. Supposedly this was some sort of "<Something> Black <Something>" special edition.
    • Glock 21 45 Pistol - $450
    • Revelation 120 22LR Rifle - $150
    • Zastava 98 8mm Mauser Rifle - $225
    • Norinco SKS 7.62x39 Rifle - $400
      • This one came with that duckbill, sort-of-replaceable magazine setup.
    • CAI M91/30 7.62 x 54R Rifle - Not sold because they realized at the last moment that the bolt was missing.
    • ATI Tula ATI M18 7.62x54R Rifle - $225
    • MSAR STG .223 Rifle - $1400
    • Maadi Co. AK47 7.62x39 Rifle - $1000
    • Mosin Nagant 1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $250
    • Rock River Arms LAR-8 .308 Rifle - $1300
      • 6 or 7 spare mags
    • Springfield Armory M1 Garand 30.06 Rifle - $1500
      • Looked a bit sad and worn but at least the wood hadn't been refinished. According to the house, the serial number puts the mfg date in 1941.
    • DPMS A-15 .223 Rifle - $650
    • Swiss Military 1911 Carbine 7.5Swiss Rifle - $550
    • PW Arms 1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $300
    • Beretta XCEL A400 12ga Shotgun - $1200
    • BCM BAD-15 5.56 Rifle - $1200
    • Sig Sauer 1911-22 .22LR Pistol - $400
    • Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 22LR Rifle - $475
    • Colt Government 22LR Pistol - $450
    • Nighthawk Custom NHC .45ACP Pistol - $2000
      • Auctioneer said it was a model listed at $3900 from Nighthawk.
    • Springfield Armory XD9 9mm Pistol - $700
      • This was the full kit - 3 mags, holster, mag holder, case, accessories.
    • Remington 1100 LT-20 20ga Shotgun - $475
      • This lightweight variant had a straight-grip stock. I don't think I've ever seen that on an 1100.
    • Diamondback DB15 .223 Rifle - $725
    • Mosin Nagant M91/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $275
    • Norinco Mak-90-Sporter 7.62x39 Rifle - $850
      • Thumbhole stock
    • Russian Mosin Nagant M1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $200
    • Zastava PW Arms M48A 8mm Mauser Rifle - $275
    • Spanish Mauser 7.92 x 57 Rifle matching #’s - $275
    • Anderson Manufacturing AM-15 .223 Rifle - $600
    • ATI Tula 1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $250
    • ATI Tula 1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $300
    So, does anybody see any bargains in all that?
     
    Last edited:

    benenglish

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    Ammo -

    Brand
    Caliber
    Number of boxes
    Rounds per box
    Price per box
    Hornady​
    .380​
    5​
    25​
    $20.00​
    Golden Tiger​
    7.62x39​
    30​
    20​
    $10.00​
    military​
    6.5 Swedish wood bullets​
    1​
    200​
    $40.00​
    Bornaghi​
    20 ga.​
    9​
    25​
    $7.50​
    various​
    9mm​
    11​
    50​
    $25.00​
    military​
    .30 carbine​
    6​
    50​
    $15.00​
    Fiochi​
    .22LR​
    1​
    550​
    $40.00​
    Freedom Munitions​
    .45 ACP​
    8​
    50​
    $15.00​
    Bornaghi​
    12 ga​
    9​
    25​
    $5.00​
    CCI​
    .22 LR​
    18​
    50​
    $5.00​
    unknown​
    30-06​
    2​
    50​
    $20.00​
    Freedom Munitions​
    .380​
    8​
    50​
    $22.50​
    unknown​
    20 ga.​
    13​
    25​
    $7.50​
    Hornady Critical Duty​
    .45 ACP​
    2​
    20​
    $20.00​
    unknown​
    300BO​
    6​
    50​
    $65.00​
    CCI​
    .22 LR​
    10​
    50​
    $5.00​
    Wolf​
    7.62x39​
    18​
    20​
    $7.50​
    Fiochi​
    12 ga​
    7​
    25​
    $10.00​
    unknown​
    .308 Win​
    6​
    20​
    $20.00​
    Hornady​
    5.45x39​
    8​
    50​
    $22.50​
    Fiocchi​
    12 ga​
    7​
    25​
    $5.00​
    Fiocchi​
    .45 ACP​
    10​
    50​
    $25.00​
    Colorado Custom​
    30-06​
    ?​
    120 total​
    $130.00​
    PMC​
    .223​
    9​
    20​
    $15.00​
    Federal Gold Medal Match​
    .308 Win​
    8​
    20​
    $20.00​
    Freedom Munitions​
    .380​
    5​
    50​
    $20.00​
    Golden Tiger​
    7.62x39​
    32​
    20​
    $7.50​
    brown box​
    7.62x39​
    8​
    40​
    $17.50​
    Winchester Super X​
    .22 LR​
    11​
    100​
    $25.00​
    Federal​
    5.56​
    1 can​
    420​
    $250.00​
    Golden Eagle Match​
    .22 LR​
    2​
    500​
    $90.00​
    unknown​
    .308 Win​
    1 plastic bag​
    500​
    $200.00​
    unknown​
    .380​
    10​
    50​
    $27.50​
    Hornady​
    5.45x39​
    10​
    50​
    $15.00​
    unknown​
    .45 ACP​
    9​
    50​
    $25.00​
    Golden Tiger​
    7.62x39​
    33​
    20​
    $10.00​
    American Eagle​
    9mm​
    9​
    50​
    $40.00​
    Remington​
    .22-250​
    5​
    20​
    $20.00​
    Hornady​
    5.45x39​
    10​
    50​
    $15.00​
    CCI​
    .22 LR​
    20​
    100​
    $15.00​
    Freedom Munitions​
    .45 ACP​
    5​
    50​
    $27.50​
    unknown​
    .270​
    6​
    20​
    $15.00​
    Federal​
    5.56​
    7​
    20​
    $10.00​
    Bornaghi​
    20 ga.​
    4​
    250​
    $80.00​
    Black Hills​
    .223​
    1 case​
    1000​
    $800.00​
    Remington​
    12 ga​
    1 case​
    250​
    $70.00​
    Winchester​
    12 ga​
    1 case​
    250​
    $110.00​
    Bornaghi​
    12 ga​
    1 case​
    250​
    $110.00​
    military​
    7.5 Swiss GP11​
    1 case​
    480​
    $275.00​
    Hornady​
    5.45x39​
    2 cases​
    500​
    $150.00​
    unknown​
    7.62​
    2 cans​
    440​
    $125.00​
    unknown​
    7.62​
    7 cans​
    440​
    $150.00​
    unknown​
    7.62​
    1 crate​
    740​
    $175.00​
    unknown​
    7.9​
    1 can​
    unknown​
    $275.00​
    unknown​
    7.62​
    4 crates​
    880​
    $275.00​
     
    Last edited:

    benenglish

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    In case the spreadsheet above didn't format correctly, here's a screenshot:

    Screenshot from 2020-10-19 17-37-03.png
     

    Reinz

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    Nothing there to make me look twice. I’m not into old military stuff, so not interested or have any knowledge of that stuff. But the prices seem close to retail or street prices.

    Yawn

    However, if I was hard up, some of the ammo prices not too bad Given our current climate.
     

    John Galt

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    The only thing that piqued my intrest is the Mosen Nagant. Always wanted one but don't know why. What is 'reasonable' for that?
     

    Glenn B

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    Just stopping to take brief notice of something I observed, something irritating but also comical in how obvious it was. There was a black family occupying the left side, front row at this auction. Whenever anything nice or expensive came out, the floor workers would completely ignore them and show off the gun everywhere else in the room. But that Ruger and that Bersa? Those cheap, department store rifles? They practically shoved those and all the other cheap guns in their faces. Sigh and smdh.
    I am left wondering if they were shown the cheaper guns because they are well known bidders by the auctioneers and are known to only have an interest in less expensive guns.
     

    benenglish

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    I am left wondering if they were shown the cheaper guns because they are well known bidders by the auctioneers and are known to only have an interest in less expensive guns.
    I like that explanation. Thank you. I feel better, now.

    And, yes, I'm serious and sincerely grateful. Another set of eyes, another perspective is very valuable; I need to be reminded of that.
     

    Texasjack

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    I'm not impressed by the list of guns or the prices. Nothing on there would be on my bucket list. Love the description of the auctioneers! What's the old Roman saying? Caveat Emptor! (Let the buyer beware!)
     

    benenglish

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    The only thing that piqued my intrest is the Mosen Nagant. Always wanted one but don't know why. What is 'reasonable' for that?
    I don't know the answer to your question but I will note that you asked about "the" Mosin Nagant. There were 8 of them at the auction. One didn't sell because the bolt was missing. The other 7 sold for $200, $225, $250, $250, $275, $300, and $300 plus 15% buyer's premium.

    There are Mosin Nagant enthusiasts on this board. Maybe one of them will comment on that price spread.

    For reference:
    • CAI M91/30 7.62 x 54R Rifle - Not sold because they realized at the last moment that the bolt was missing.
    • ATI Tula ATI M18 7.62x54R Rifle - $225
    • Mosin Nagant 1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $250
    • PW Arms 1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $300
      Mosin Nagant M91/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $275
      Russian Mosin Nagant M1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $200
    • ATI Tula 1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $250
    • ATI Tula 1891/30 7.62x54R Rifle - $300
    ETA - If you'll look at the first line of my OP, you'll find a link to pretty decent pictures of all the guns, showing how the stocks were refinished, etc. Photos are here.
     
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    Glenn B

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    Mosin Nagants 91/30 models have asking prices, at guns shows I've been to over the past several months, up to $450 for nice ones but nothing special except matching numbers. I doubt if the dealers are getting those prices with regularity but my bet is if they ask $350 they may take $375 and that is still way too high as far as I see it. Most have lower asking prices between about $350 and $400, some even lower but not many.

    I sold one, with turned down bolt, that had been painted then stripped of the paint and refinished by me to a more or less original look, to a dealer a couple of months or so back and that was for in the $200 to $250 range. I was happy - he was happy - saw it on his table later for sale do not remember if I looked at the price. Saw him at a gun show about a month later - my ex-Mosin Nagant was nowhere to be seen, I guess he sold it. If so, I would bet he sold it as a sniper version because of the turned down bolt. Those have asking prices well over $500 at some shows.

    By the way, while some of those with the glossy finish (especially with the very light stain) look to have been refinished since they were imported, others in that group with glossy finishes on the stock may not have been refinished by the recent owner but look as they could be arsenal refinish jobs. So of the ones that came out of the arsenals after bveing refinished have what almost looks like a 16th to an 8th of an inch of varnish on them.
     

    benenglish

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    By the way, while some of those with the glossy finish (especially with the very light stain) look to have been refinished since they were imported, others in that group with glossy finishes on the stock may not have been refinished by the recent owner but look as they could be arsenal refinish jobs. So of the ones that came out of the arsenals after bveing refinished have what almost looks like a 16th to an 8th of an inch of varnish on them.
    That's good to know. Thanks for the info.

    Now, having acknowledged my ignorance about the common appearance of Mosins, I will stick to my story that the deceased was refinishing stocks. There were several rifles in intermediate stages with the stocks sanded but without any finish.
     
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